northwest 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar.
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar.  (Read 2649 times)
Dontbstme
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« on: Thursday March 7 2019 01:39:38 AEDT AM »

Hi folks.

My first big 30" CC for ML machines is up and running. It weighs 1043 grams and it's super stable. It works well in all coil settings - DD, Mono and Cancel.
It gets my 600 grams simulated gold nugget from Tin at about 51" in FP settings.
It is also relatively sensitive to small-ish nugs. It gets my Ozzy half gram gold at about 3" in the centre of the coil. I know smaller coils will get this much better, but this seems to be unusually high sensitivity to something so small compared to the coil size.

Any input regarding tests and settings will be appreciated.
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WM6
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« Reply #1 on: Thursday March 7 2019 07:54:57 AEDT AM »

1043 grams coil cable inclusive?

If so - good achievement.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #2 on: Thursday March 7 2019 08:05:30 AEDT AM »

  
1043 grams coil cable inclusive?

If so - good achievement.
Yes. 1043 grams for everything.
30"CC with the same Carbon shells for my MP is only 600 grams, but for PI the TX loop wire alone is 500 grams.
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mylab
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« Reply #3 on: Thursday March 7 2019 12:40:31 AEDT PM »

  
Hi folks.

My first big 30" CC for ML machines is up and running. It weighs 1043 grams and it's super stable.
It works well in all coil settings - DD, Mono and Cancel.
It gets my 600 grams simulated gold nugget from Tin at about 51" in FP settings.
It is also relatively sensitive to small-ish nugs. It gets my Ozzy half gram gold at about 3" in the centre of the coil.

What GPX were you using, a 4500 or 5000, for the FP settings as the FP settings for either are different if using the soil/timing switch set to special. Therefore if on a 4500 the soil timing is sensitive/extra whereas on the 5000 it is fine /gold. If not in special then you were using either normal or enhance for either detector.Then of course there are the search modes of general deep & custom again with different FP settings for each.

So saying FP setting does not tell us much?

Also what coil setting?

And good on you if your CC coil works as good as you say on the GPX.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #4 on: Thursday March 7 2019 15:09:26 AEDT PM »

  
  
Hi folks.

My first big 30" CC for ML machines is up and running. It weighs 1043 grams and it's super stable.
It works well in all coil settings - DD, Mono and Cancel.
It gets my 600 grams simulated gold nugget from Tin at about 51" in FP settings.
It is also relatively sensitive to small-ish nugs. It gets my Ozzy half gram gold at about 3" in the centre of the coil.

What GPX were you using, a 4500 or 5000, for the FP settings as the FP settings for either are different if using the soil/timing switch set to special. Therefore if on a 4500 the soil timing is sensitive/extra whereas on the 5000 it is fine /gold. If not in special then you were using either normal or enhance for either detector.Then of course there are the search modes of general deep & custom again with different FP settings for each.

So saying FP setting does not tell us much?

Also what coil setting?

And good on you if your CC coil works as good as you say on the GPX.

I have 4500. The FP settings are in Normal mode. I tried also in Deep.
FP settings used for DD, Mono and Cancel coil settings. Cancel seemed a bit more sensitive.

Since I do not have another large mono I can not tell how good or bad the performance of my 30" CC is. The only indication of depth comparison that I have is a hammered copper bucket buried years ago under compact soil at 1 meter depth below the surface, GPX5000 with 16" mono was not able to get a signal from this target on any settings. The 4500 now with my new 30"CC gets a huge signal with a good 10" above the soil.

I got a 5 gram 23.5 Carats gold bar that I can get at 18" in air, but a smaller coil could be more sensitive to this bar.
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mylab
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« Reply #5 on: Thursday March 7 2019 17:27:46 AEDT PM »

  

I have 4500. The FP settings are in Normal mode. I tried also in Deep.
FP settings used for DD, Mono and Cancel coil settings. Cancel seemed a bit more sensitive.

The only indication of depth comparison that I have is a hammered copper bucket buried years ago under compact soil at 1 meter depth below the surface, ............. The 4500 now with my new 30"CC gets a huge signal with a good 10" above the soil.


I am somewhat confused as I try to grasp when you say Normal mode so is that General Search mode or Normal timing (N) position of the Soil/Timings switch which is the strongest timing except for Sharp under Special ?

Now from your result on the hammered copper bucket in the ground at 1 metre and the 4500 & 30" CC coil producing a hugh signal at 10"(25cm) above the ground for an overall depth of 1.25 metres........ then that is still less than the depth displayed in the video of Nexus Standard MP V2 using the Dual 30" Figure 8 coil over the same hammered copper bucket at 1 metre depth which produced a signal at 18" (45cm) above the ground for an overall depth of 1.45 metres.




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Dontbstme
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« Reply #6 on: Thursday March 7 2019 19:48:50 AEDT PM »

  
  

I have 4500. The FP settings are in Normal mode. I tried also in Deep.
FP settings used for DD, Mono and Cancel coil settings. Cancel seemed a bit more sensitive.

The only indication of depth comparison that I have is a hammered copper bucket buried years ago under compact soil at 1 meter depth below the surface, ............. The 4500 now with my new 30"CC gets a huge signal with a good 10" above the soil.


I am somewhat confused as I try to grasp when you say Normal mode so is that General Search mode or Normal timing (N) position of the Soil/Timings switch which is the strongest timing except for Sharp under Special ?

Now from your result on the hammered copper bucket in the ground at 1 metre and the 4500 & 30" CC coil producing a hugh signal at 10"(25cm) above the ground for an overall depth of 1.25 metrs........ then that is still less than the depth displayed in the video of Nexus Standard MP V2 using the Dual 30" Figure 8 coil over the same hammered copper bucket at 1 metre depth which produced a signal at 18" (45cm) above the ground for an overall depth of 1.45 metres.





Nexus Standard MP with dual 30" coil is superior to the GPX and for that matter to all other detectors in normal ground conditions to almost all targets and especially to pure copper items and others with very high conductivity.
On the video you mention the MP's Threshold was significantly reduced to make the detector completely silent during operation.
With some hum in the Threshold this copper bucket can be detected down to 2 meters in the ground with the MP and dual 30" coil. But these are the kind of targets I mentioned in another post that the IB detectors have the advantage to PI.
So if the metal composition is less pure then the PI gains a lot and very quickly.

The GPX 4500 with 30"CC gets a 6" stainless steel can from a kitchen scale at 2 meters. After some time I'll get some videos done, but I need to make sure this 30" CC is actually worth filming. It may happen some other smaller mono's out there to be better than my 30".
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #7 on: Thursday March 7 2019 20:08:27 AEDT PM »

  

I am somewhat confused as I try to grasp when you say Normal mode so is that General Search mode or Normal timing (N) position of the Soil/Timings switch which is the strongest timing except for Sharp under Special ?


I mean Normal timing in General search Mode.
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mylab
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« Reply #8 on: Friday March 8 2019 00:32:02 AEDT AM »

  

The GPX 4500 with 30"CC gets a 6" stainless steel can from a kitchen scale at 2 meters.

After some time I'll get some videos done, but I need to make sure this 30" CC is actually worth filming.

 It may happen some other smaller mono's out there to be better than my 30".


If 2 metres is possible with the Nexus which is a further 29.5” (0.75 metre) than the GPX on the copper bucket using its Normal timing then that is impressive although you say this type of target the IB has the advantage over the PI.  

Could you perform a test using an empty standard aluminium soft drink can of 375ml capacity with the dimensions 130mm long and 65mm in diameter using FP settings in General Mode and Normal timing on your 4500 and 30" CC coil as a result with a 18” mono coil on my 4500 using those same settings was 46” (1.16 metres) when passing the can back and forth above the coil resting on the ground.

Also some videos would be good that you mentioned.


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Dontbstme
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« Reply #9 on: Friday March 8 2019 01:25:36 AEDT AM »

  

If 2 metres is possible with the Nexus which is a further 29.5” (0.75 metre) than the GPX on the copper bucket using its Normal timing then that is impressive although you say this type of target the IB has the advantage over the PI.  

Could you to perform a test using an empty standard aluminium soft drink can of 375ml capacity with the dimensions 130mm long and 65mm in diameter using FP settings in General Mode and Normal timing on your 4500 and 30" CC coil as a result with a 18” mono coil on my 4500 using those same settings was 46” (1.16 metres) when passing the can back and forth above the coil resting on the ground.

Also some videos would be good that you mentioned.



Let's not forget that the MP in the this discussion is using dual 30" coil that is nearly twice the surface area of the 30"CC for the GPX. Twice surface area will already provide approximately 25% increase of sensitivity to big deep objects.
To compare fairly the GPX4500 with 30"CC to MP with dual 30" one would have to discount at least 20% from the MP results to account for the coil size differences other wise it is unfair battle.

We have here 330 ml standard for the soft drink cans. I'll look into the shops if I can get anything in 375 in the dimensions you provided and will let you know.
If all is correct with my coil the sensitivity increase from 18" mono to 30" CC (mono)  for 375 ml can, from calculation should be from 46" (116 cm) to 194 cm or 76" approximately.
I measure purely in air with the coil flat on the ground as I have no way to swing 2 meters high up.
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mylab
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« Reply #10 on: Friday March 8 2019 01:39:45 AEDT AM »

  

If all is correct with my coil the sensitivity increase from 18" mono to 30" CC (mono)  for 375 ml can, from calculation should be from 46" (116 cm) to 194 cm or 76" approximately.

I measure purely in air with the coil flat on the ground as I have no way to swing 2 meters high up.


Very good, yes in air with the coil flat on the ground and passing the can back and forth above.
By using the aluminium drink can it is a universal test target that everyone is able to use for a comparison.
Will be interesting if your 30" CC coil can max out up at 1.94 metres or more. 
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #11 on: Friday March 8 2019 03:12:56 AEDT AM »

  
  

If all is correct with my coil the sensitivity increase from 18" mono to 30" CC (mono)  for 375 ml can, from calculation should be from 46" (116 cm) to 194 cm or 76" approximately.

I measure purely in air with the coil flat on the ground as I have no way to swing 2 meters high up.


Very good, yes in air with the coil flat on the ground and passing the can back and forth above.
By using the aluminium drink can it is a universal test target that everyone is able to use for a comparison.
Will be interesting if your 30" CC coil can max out up at 1.94 metres or more. 
I just realised I'm talking bs. The mistake I made with my calculation is that the size increase from 18" to 30", which is about 66% will add 33% to the sensitivity, but I added 66%. So your result os 46" multiplied by 1.33 would give 61" or about 155 cm. So the 30"CC should get the can at 155 cm.
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mylab
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« Reply #12 on: Friday March 8 2019 19:57:03 AEDT PM »

Dontbstme have you set a date for your video tests with the MP & Pathfinder on gold nuggets that you mentioned in a previous thread on 31st January this year?

Also any date set yet on that genuine invitation to visit the golden triangle this year to see first hand what the MP & Pathfinder can do on the ground here that you mentioned in the same thread on 29th January this year?

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Dontbstme
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« Reply #13 on: Friday March 8 2019 20:39:40 AEDT PM »

  
Dontbstme have you set a date for your video tests with the MP & Pathfinder on gold nuggets that you mentioned in a previous thread on 31st January this year?

Also any date set yet on that genuine invitation to visit the golden triangle this year to see first hand what the MP & Pathfinder can do on the ground here that you mentioned in the same thread on 29th January this year?


Those dates are not set yet. I expect all this to happen some time in the summer, June, July August, but it will depend on how ready I am with the Pathfinder. This one need a lot of work to be done.
There is a good chance that before hand I will send the 30" and possibly 41"CC to be tested in Oz.

Next week I am testing the 30"CC with the GPX4500 on highly mineralised grounds nicely loaded with Magnetite and with relatively high conductivity as well.

Today I'll look in the shops for a soft drink can that matches your dimensions and will get out for test. I'll try to put up some video too.
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mylab
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« Reply #14 on: Friday March 8 2019 21:19:38 AEDT PM »

Thanks for the update and look forward to your aluminium drink can result if you able to access one and some further videos.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #15 on: Saturday March 9 2019 01:43:34 AEDT AM »

  
Thanks for the update and look forward to your aluminium drink can result if you able to access one and some further videos.

So there are no 375 ml cans here, but 330 (65 x 115 mm).
The 330 ml can was detectable at about 120 cm flat against the coil.
Today I was not able to get any of the targets like a couple of days ago. The hammered copper bucket was barely detectable in the ground and all air test results seemed somewhat ordinary.
I wonder if there is not something wrong with the detector as day to day performance does not seem to repeat.
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mylab
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« Reply #16 on: Saturday March 9 2019 09:18:24 AEDT AM »

Maybe your CC coil is now creating some sort of issue for the GPX?
Has switching from Cancel to DD or Mono change things at all?
Also even try restoring all Factory Preset settings:
Below is from the user manual.
1 Turn the detector off.
2 Press and hold the On/ Off switch until the Reset Defaults menu appears (approx. 5–6 seconds).
3 Turn Function Select to the right to select All Settings.
4 Turn Setting left or right to restore all Factory Presets.
Note: When performing an All Settings reset, the settings for the four Custom Search Modes are preserved. This is to prevent your own favourite mode settings from accidentally being erased whilst allowing the LCD menu, Deep Mode and General Mode settings to be quickly restored to factory settings.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #17 on: Saturday March 9 2019 18:50:44 AEDT PM »

  
Maybe your CC coil is now creating some sort of issue for the GPX?
Has switching from Cancel to DD or Mono change things at all?
Also even try restoring all Factory Preset settings:
Below is from the user manual.
1 Turn the detector off.
2 Press and hold the On/ Off switch until the Reset Defaults menu appears (approx. 5–6 seconds).
3 Turn Function Select to the right to select All Settings.
4 Turn Setting left or right to restore all Factory Presets.
Note: When performing an All Settings reset, the settings for the four Custom Search Modes are preserved. This is to prevent your own favourite mode settings from accidentally being erased whilst allowing the LCD menu, Deep Mode and General Mode settings to be quickly restored to factory settings.
A coil is a coil. It can not be perfect one day and mediocre in another, especially made by someone like my self. I have very serious experience building coils and can assure you in this coil there is no fault of any kind.

Now regarding the settings of the detector this is different matter. I am quite confused with all those options that quite frankly can get longer than the Bible.
I probably should have written down the settings when the detector was doing well to make sure they stay the same or I can return to the same settings as it is impossible for me to remember every detail of what was what.
I'll get someone more experienced with this complicated thing to adjust it and see what will come out of it.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #18 on: Sunday March 10 2019 01:25:47 AEDT AM »

So it turns out the GPX4500 with my 30" CC in FP does not do incredible things, but with some extra settings everything comes in place.
My 600 grams simulated from Tin nugget made a signal at 53"+ (135 cm) and 5 grams 14K mens gold ring was detectable at 31.5" (80 cm).
The 330 ml soft drink can was detectable at 61" (155 cm).

I made a video, but the high swings got out of the frame as I was shooting alone and had no way to check before the end of the job. Tomorrow I'll repeat the video with better frame exposure so everything can be seen.

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egixe4
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« Reply #19 on: Sunday March 10 2019 10:39:11 AEDT AM »

Thanks for your work Dontbstme
I'm enjoying reading your posts


 happy face 
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar. « previous next »
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