northwest 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar.
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils  |  Topic: 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar. Dontbstme and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar.  (Read 1306 times)
GARY
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« Reply #40 on: Thursday March 14 2019 09:38:55 AEDT AM »

  
  

Dontbstme's result at 155cm was with a smaller 330ml Can although of same diameter as the 375ml Can used in Gary's result at 116cm.


In theory if I was to use 375 ml can then the air test would have gone to 165 cm, 10 cm (6.5%) more than what I got with 330 ml can.

Tomorrow I will be down to South BG on a super heavy mineralised site. It is a Vanadium mine first developed by the Germans in WW2. I will have with me Hristo Terziev a popular Bulgarian geologist to identify all of the rocks and soil conditions. I will ask him if we can take some soil measurements as well. Let see if the GPX will be able to do any GB on those conditions. There will be few more mono and DD coils from Detech and Minelab for the trials to make sure what ever the result with my 30"CC comes out is legitimate.


The problem with using the results from Normal timing on the GPX with a mono coil is on mineralised ground as we all know, Normal timing is about useless and more so the higher the ground is mineralised. So the special timings such as Smooth, Enhance & Fine Gold are required to be used to cope with the hot ground.

Therefore looking at my results on the 375ml Solo drink can using either Enhance or Fine Gold, and hopefully my calculations are correct, then going from my 18" mono up to Reg’s 38" mono the Can in Fine Gold would increase out from 41” (104cm) to 63” (161cm) and in Enhance from 42” (106cm) out to 65” (165cm)

Also raising the Gain and using the Boost audio setting can play havoc with hot ground as well so it will be interesting if Dontbstme with his 30” CC on the GPX 4500 will handle the mineralised area he mentions to test his coil on.

Especially in his settings using Normal timing with his Gain up at 11, Stabilizer up at 20 max, Target Volume up at 10, Volume Limit up at 20 max. Audio Type in Boost and all others at FP in Deep Mode except for Response using Normal instead of Inverted.

Gary.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #41 on: Thursday March 14 2019 15:40:25 AEDT PM »

  
  
  

Dontbstme's result at 155cm was with a smaller 330ml Can although of same diameter as the 375ml Can used in Gary's result at 116cm.


In theory if I was to use 375 ml can then the air test would have gone to 165 cm, 10 cm (6.5%) more than what I got with 330 ml can.

Tomorrow I will be down to South BG on a super heavy mineralised site. It is a Vanadium mine first developed by the Germans in WW2. I will have with me Hristo Terziev a popular Bulgarian geologist to identify all of the rocks and soil conditions. I will ask him if we can take some soil measurements as well. Let see if the GPX will be able to do any GB on those conditions. There will be few more mono and DD coils from Detech and Minelab for the trials to make sure what ever the result with my 30"CC comes out is legitimate.


The problem with using the results from Normal timing on the GPX with a mono coil is on mineralised ground as we all know, Normal timing is about useless and more so the higher the ground is mineralised. So the special timings such as Smooth, Enhance & Fine Gold are required to be used to cope with the hot ground.

Therefore looking at my results on the 375ml Solo drink can using either Enhance or Fine Gold, and hopefully my calculations are correct, then going from my 18" mono up to Reg’s 38" mono the Can in Fine Gold would increase out from 41” (104cm) to 63” (161cm) and in Enhance from 42” (106cm) out to 65” (165cm)

Also raising the Gain and using the Boost audio setting can play havoc with hot ground as well so it will be interesting if Dontbstme with his 30” CC on the GPX 4500 will handle the mineralised area he mentions to test his coil on.

Especially in his settings using Normal timing with his Gain up at 11, Stabilizer up at 20 max, Target Volume up at 10, Volume Limit up at 20 max. Audio Type in Boost and all others at FP in Deep Mode except for Response using Normal instead of Inverted.

Gary.
This was only a test to see what I can get at maximum useable sensitivity of the detector with the 30"CC. My settings were far from the most favourable due to too much EMI.
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Reg Wilson
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« Reply #42 on: Sunday March 17 2019 14:38:59 AEDT PM »

Mylab, have just completed test with 375ml can on 38" coil.
To get a nice smooth GB I had to set the gain at 2 and the mode at 2 as well. GB was 100 and bias at 56.
There was too much too much EMI to have the settings hotter and still maintain a smooth ground balance. If I had set them higher I may have got a better result, but it would not have been the settings one could use for viable in the field detecting. I used a speaker as well. (not my favorite audio)
The max height above the coil for a positive 'dig me' signal was 131 cm
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sd220d Digger
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« Reply #43 on: Sunday March 17 2019 20:54:11 AEDT PM »

  
Mylab, have just completed test with 375ml can on 38" coil.
To get a nice smooth GB I had to set the gain at 2 and the mode at 2 as well. GB was 100 and bias at 56.
There was too much too much EMI to have the settings hotter and still maintain a smooth ground balance. If I had set them higher I may have got a better result, but it would not have been the settings one could use for viable in the field detecting. I used a speaker as well. (not my favorite audio)
The max height above the coil for a positive 'dig me' signal was 131 cm

Hi Reg.
I found when using a big coil, was that it worked best in the early hours of the morning when the atmospherics and electrical interferences were at their lowest.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #44 on: Sunday March 17 2019 21:47:32 AEDT PM »

  
Mylab, have just completed test with 375ml can on 38" coil.
To get a nice smooth GB I had to set the gain at 2 and the mode at 2 as well. GB was 100 and bias at 56.
There was too much too much EMI to have the settings hotter and still maintain a smooth ground balance. If I had set them higher I may have got a better result, but it would not have been the settings one could use for viable in the field detecting. I used a speaker as well. (not my favorite audio)
The max height above the coil for a positive 'dig me' signal was 131 cm
Thank you Reg. It is a good reference.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #45 on: Sunday March 17 2019 21:50:40 AEDT PM »

Here is another more detailed video test of the GPX4500 with 18"DD ML Commander, 18" Mono Detech Exelerator and 30" Nexus CC.
All coils were tested in the same settings all FP passing trough DD, Mono and Cancel RX settings.
I have made a video that demonstrates on the same test site what is the best depth I can get with all 3 coils at their best settings. It will be posted as soon as I get it processed.
There is also a video that demonstrates the Nexus Standard MP with dual 20" Ultima coil on the same site and the same day for a reference to how IB detectors react to large objects in comparison to PI detectors.

  
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mylab
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« Reply #46 on: Monday March 18 2019 00:06:14 AEDT AM »

  
Mylab, have just completed test with 375ml can on 38" coil.
To get a nice smooth GB I had to set the gain at 2 and the mode at 2 as well. GB was 100 and bias at 56.
There was too much too much EMI to have the settings hotter and still maintain a smooth ground balance. If I had set them higher I may have got a better result, but it would not have been the settings one could use for viable in the field detecting. I used a speaker as well. (not my favorite audio)
The max height above the coil for a positive 'dig me' signal was 131 cm

Reg thanks for your result on the 375ml drink Can including the settings you used on your QED with your 38” coil. As you said the settings for the test are more like one would use when detecting on the goldfield and I expect would also help to reduce any EMI out in the field since your large coil would be more prone to any EMI than one not so large.
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mylab
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« Reply #47 on: Monday March 18 2019 00:09:41 AEDT AM »

  
Here is another more detailed video test of the GPX4500 with 18"DD ML Commander, 18" Mono Detech Exelerator and 30" Nexus CC.

Thanks to you also Dontbstme for another test video which I will now watch with interest.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #48 on: Monday March 18 2019 00:39:06 AEDT AM »

  
Mylab, have just completed test with 375ml can on 38" coil.
To get a nice smooth GB I had to set the gain at 2 and the mode at 2 as well. GB was 100 and bias at 56.
There was too much too much EMI to have the settings hotter and still maintain a smooth ground balance. If I had set them higher I may have got a better result, but it would not have been the settings one could use for viable in the field detecting. I used a speaker as well. (not my favorite audio)
The max height above the coil for a positive 'dig me' signal was 131 cm
I have a question. How do these settings translate to GPX settings? I take it you used QED for the test, but I have no way to understand what do these settings mean since I have never seen or used QED.
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« Reply #49 on: Monday March 18 2019 02:43:07 AEDT AM »

  
Thanks to you also Dontbstme for another test video which I will now watch with interest.

I would say why the copper bucket in the ground is producing a better result than your air test of a similar bucket is maybe due to some leaching of the copper bucket being in the ground over that time creating a larger footprint or some say a halo effect?
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #50 on: Monday March 18 2019 04:15:04 AEDT AM »

The next video is to demonstrate the maximum useable sensitivity of GPX 4500 with the 30" CC, 18" DD from ML and 18" mono from Detech.
The 330 ml soft drink can comes at 145 cm with the 30"CC and in working condition of the detector. These are still not the best settings, just the ones I managed to conjure up for the moment.
Tomorrow I am going to make the ultimate test of the GPX 4500 with the 30" CC on concentrated magnetite on the black sand beach. Magnetite and salty sea water together. Let see what will come out of it.

  
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Reg Wilson
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« Reply #51 on: Monday March 18 2019 09:30:29 AEDT AM »

When I get the opportunity I shall do the can test with a GPX and the 38" coil and post the results.
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GARY
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« Reply #52 on: Monday March 18 2019 11:23:59 AEDT AM »

An interesting video Dontbstme, which I also enjoyed due to my air test addiction, so I just had to analyse your result with your 30” CC coil on the GPX 4500 in Enhance timing on the Drink Can, it being the common target for the comparison.
 
As you said in a previous post those settings you used on the 4500 with your 30” CC coil were not favourable due to too much EMI when you achieved 155cm (61”) which was 24cm (9”) more than Reg’s result at 131cm (51.5”)”, and you were using a smaller 330ml Drink Can.

Then if your theory holds true of an extra 6.5% depth if you were using a 375ml Drink Can then your result would have increased to 165cm (65”), a further 34cm (13”) however using FP settings in Normal timing, and if I am correct your result was 120cm (47”). Increase that by 6.5% for a 375ml Drink Can and the result would increase to 128cm (50”) compared to 131cm (51.5”) with Reg’s 38” mono on his QED.

Now you did mention to do further tests down South BG on a super mineralise site with the GPX and 30”CC coil and see if the GPX could GB on those conditions. Therefore I assume your video is at that test site since you had to revert to using Enhance due to the ground conditions.

I see from your results on the 330ml Drink Can using FP settings in Enhance timing the best air depth with your 30” CC coil was 128cm (50”). Then if you add that 6.5% for a 375ml Drink Can your result would increase to 136cm (53.5”)

If I refer back to my air depth result using Enhance with the 18” mono on the 375ml Drink Can and my result at 106cm(42”) then if I was to use your basic rule to calculate the distance if I was to use my 25” mono the result would increase to 122cm (48”).

And if I were to use Reg’s 38” mono and calculate the increased distance from my 18” mono the result on the 375ml Drink Can should be 135cm (53”) close to your best at 136cm (53.5”) which is only 2cm (20mm or 0.7”) more than Reg’s 131cm (51.5”) result with his 38” mono on the QED.

I now see in your Part 2 video with the 30”CC for extra sensitivity on the GPX4500 the settings you changed in the Deep Search Mode menu apart from FP settings was raising the Target Volume from 8 up to 15 and reducing the Threshold to Zero. Your result now on the 330ml Drink Can increased from 136cm (53.5”) up to 145cm (57”). Add the 6.5% if a 375ml Drink Can and it is up to 154cm (60.6”) You say these are still not the best settings, just the ones you managed to conjure up for the moment.

Increasing settings is all good and well as it depends on ground conditions, atmospherics, the coil, target type and size etc.
 
I hope all my results are correct as it sure gave me a head spin to calculate.

Look forward to your next test video.

Gary.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #53 on: Monday March 18 2019 17:09:54 AEDT PM »

  
An interesting video Dontbstme, which I also enjoyed due to my air test addiction, so I just had to analyse your result with your 30” CC coil on the GPX 4500 in Enhance timing on the Drink Can, it being the common target for the comparison.
 
As you said in a previous post those settings you used on the 4500 with your 30” CC coil were not favourable due to too much EMI when you achieved 155cm (61”) which was 24cm (9”) more than Reg’s result at 131cm (51.5”)”, and you were using a smaller 330ml Drink Can.

Then if your theory holds true of an extra 6.5% depth if you were using a 375ml Drink Can then your result would have increased to 165cm (65”), a further 34cm (13”) however using FP settings in Normal timing, and if I am correct your result was 120cm (47”). Increase that by 6.5% for a 375ml Drink Can and the result would increase to 128cm (50”) compared to 131cm (51.5”) with Reg’s 38” mono on his QED.

Now you did mention to do further tests down South BG on a super mineralise site with the GPX and 30”CC coil and see if the GPX could GB on those conditions. Therefore I assume your video is at that test site since you had to revert to using Enhance due to the ground conditions.

I see from your results on the 330ml Drink Can using FP settings in Enhance timing the best air depth with your 30” CC coil was 128cm (50”). Then if you add that 6.5% for a 375ml Drink Can your result would increase to 136cm (53.5”)

If I refer back to my air depth result using Enhance with the 18” mono on the 375ml Drink Can and my result at 106cm(42”) then if I was to use your basic rule to calculate the distance if I was to use my 25” mono the result would increase to 122cm (48”).

And if I were to use Reg’s 38” mono and calculate the increased distance from my 18” mono the result on the 375ml Drink Can should be 135cm (53”) close to your best at 136cm (53.5”) which is only 2cm (20mm or 0.7”) more than Reg’s 131cm (51.5”) result with his 38” mono on the QED.

I now see in your Part 2 video with the 30”CC for extra sensitivity on the GPX4500 the settings you changed in the Deep Search Mode menu apart from FP settings was raising the Target Volume from 8 up to 15 and reducing the Threshold to Zero. Your result now on the 330ml Drink Can increased from 136cm (53.5”) up to 145cm (57”). Add the 6.5% if a 375ml Drink Can and it is up to 154cm (60.6”) You say these are still not the best settings, just the ones you managed to conjure up for the moment.

Increasing settings is all good and well as it depends on ground conditions, atmospherics, the coil, target type and size etc.
 
I hope all my results are correct as it sure gave me a head spin to calculate.

Look forward to your next test video.

Gary.

It all sounds right, well until we establish that its not. But for now its right. happy face
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #54 on: Monday March 18 2019 17:26:05 AEDT PM »

The last video is still not on a mineralised test site, at least not according to the Nexus Standard MP. The MP is a huge gun there and it outguns the GPX hands down.
For some reason me and my friend had difficulties to ground balance at the high power modes, that's why I decided to use the Enhance.

Next video that will come out today is from a real mineralised site (we call it Peregruzka - it means Overload from Russian) where all soil is littered with millions of magnetic rocks of all kinds. The site is near an ancient gold mine, long abandoned.
The video is just coming out of my pc rendering program.

Today I am going on the black sand beach to use test conditions where not one IB detector (short of Nexus MP) can work. Nexus MP is very shallow in those conditions with standard size coils, just up to 3" for larger coins. Minelab CTX3030 goes in overload mode at zero sensitivity and XP Deus can not see a coin in what ever setting right on top of the sand/soil. Fisher F75 goes haywire half meter above the back sand. Not working at all.
Combined with the salt water on the beach this should be a tough one for any detector.
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« Reply #55 on: Tuesday March 19 2019 04:49:16 AEDT AM »

Here it is. Finally a video on highly mineralised soil, still not comparable to Oz horrific grounds, but bad enough for IB detectors to chalk on it.
Tomorrow I will post the video from today from another test site 270 km away from my town. That one is a master piece as the magnetite in there is in piles, huge piles, plus all of the crap left over by agricultural works as the field is arable land. Black highly conductive soil.

  
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #56 on: Tuesday March 19 2019 05:32:47 AEDT AM »

Mechanical stability test of the 30"CC.

  
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WM6
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« Reply #57 on: Tuesday March 19 2019 08:46:58 AEDT AM »

Brave 1m digger. Seems coil work stable. Congratulation.

Here we are back to the main problems of deep diggers.
Namely how to distinguish between Gold nugget and tin can (or other crap)
at 1m of depth - to not to dig ten 1m holes per day in vain.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #58 on: Tuesday March 19 2019 18:24:53 AEDT PM »

  
Brave 1m digger. Seems coil work stable. Congratulation.

Here we are back to the main problems of deep diggers.
Namely how to distinguish between Gold nugget and tin can (or other crap)
at 1m of depth - to not to dig ten 1m holes per day in vain.
In Europe I would dig just about any deep sounding target, regardless, but in Oz I am not jealous one bit to those that have to dig the old timers crap. I am afraid there is no way around this. In highly mineralised conditions discrimination is impossible at depth, much less so against tin cans. Not a chance.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #59 on: Tuesday March 19 2019 18:52:31 AEDT PM »

Here is the last video on highly mineralised soil that I am going to be presenting from Bulgaria. Next is the land of Oz.

The test on the black sand beach was impossible for the detector to do. Even at all gain settings like Target Volume 1, RX Gain 1, Stabiliser 1 all in Enhanced mode and DD coil configuration the detector was giving very strong reactions to the magnetite combined with the sea salt water. The magnetite was concentrated with no normal sand around. Possibly with a smaller coil things could work out.

So here is the video from the magnetite loaded arable land just above the black sand beach.

  
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils  |  Topic: 30" CC for Minelab GPX, GP, SD and similar. « previous next »
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