northwest Are big coils throughly feasible for gold detectors and up to what point?
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: Are big coils throughly feasible for gold detectors and up to what point? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Are big coils throughly feasible for gold detectors and up to what point?  (Read 897 times)
Dontbstme
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« on: Friday January 25 2019 18:22:07 AEDT PM »

Ok guys. I'v been trying so far to establish the world of big coils amongst the gold prospectors, but with very limited success.
The Australian company Carbon Coils,    owned by Chris has closed that business and by the owner's words it is because the Litz wire quality issues were insolvable.
Then there are some rather scares reports of individuals using DIY big coils, but they don't talk much about this either.
On the other hand in talk with someone from Bulgaria I hear the big coils are very difficult to ground balance with the GPX and other PI machines.

Now my digging into this subject is purely because I believe the big coils to be the only way further down, and I am quite convinced about it.

So is there anybody who would share their 50 cents on the subject or will we be as secretive as the treasure hunters in Europe who are panically afraid someone will get rich before them?
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egixe4
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« Reply #1 on: Friday January 25 2019 19:05:07 AEDT PM »

There is plenty of discussion right here on this Forum about the need for big coils
A number of members roll their own coils, and share their information right here.

 good luck



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Dontbstme
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« Reply #2 on: Friday January 25 2019 19:32:32 AEDT PM »

  
There is plenty of discussion right here on this Forum about the need for big coils
A number of members roll their own coils, and share their information right here.

 good luck




Can you point me to any of those discussions please. I am having a hard time finding hardly anything on the subject.
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egixe4
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« Reply #3 on: Friday January 25 2019 20:13:19 AEDT PM »

This topic
The need for big deep gold detectors
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Doug
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« Reply #4 on: Friday January 25 2019 21:54:00 AEDT PM »

  
  
There is plenty of discussion right here on this Forum about the need for big coils
A number of members roll their own coils, and share their information right here.

 good luck




Can you point me to any of those discussions please. I am having a hard time finding hardly anything on the subject.

For ultimate depth on larger object then the only way to go with large coils is to use a ground loop setup.
doug smile
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Muntari
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« Reply #5 on: Friday January 25 2019 22:56:47 AEDT PM »

"the Litz wire quality issues were insolvable."

With Asian manufacturing, unfortunately, when it comes to quality, you need to be on their door step more often than not, let them to their own devices, and quality begins to suffer or components get changed without notification.
Unless you are a large company, the cost of doing business in what is a relatively low margin and low quantity market,becomes uneconomical, it's just the way it is.

Litz wire is not cheap and this does not help matters either.

Just my experience with manufacturing in Asia.

On the Big coils, as has been pointed out, there is a thread currently active  and a number of people doing work on this including Aziz,IBgold and  myself and a host of others.
Everything is a trade off with metal detecting /coils and finding the best size and type of coil is an ever absorbing subject.

Hats off to existing coil manufactures and folk like IBgold, it's a lot of work to get a large coil quiet and sensitive but you can do it...but how many folk are  there that would buy such large coils and how much are people willing to pay for such a coil?.. I'm talking say, 1.2m...

As I said margins are low when you factor quality and repairs into  a product..and that I would suggest is the main reason extreme sized coils are mainly DIY

Secret squirrel projects are with us mainly  due to trolls that frequent forums and twist legitimate and interesting threads to the point of no return, so why would anyone with  ideas share too much?

Anyways, have a squiz through the DIY areas of this forum there is plenty of discussion. happy face

Oh I would add one thing, Big coils require a slower sweep pattern, or slow speed if being towed....the chance of missing a deep target with a large coil is higher than one would expect....you might pick up a large deep target with a faster speed but go too fast you will surely miss those medium to small ones lurking at depth...
and to make it more interesting, given the conical field pattern of detection with a mono or CC coil, you need to allow for a lesser depth for good overlapping of search area, for maximum economy of detection...so in essence, you may need a bigger coil...or just go slower  lol...just my 2 bobs anyways..

cheers

muntari
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Reg Wilson
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« Reply #6 on: Friday January 25 2019 23:31:59 AEDT PM »

Nicely summed up Muntari.
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #7 on: Saturday January 26 2019 00:18:49 AEDT AM »

  
"the Litz wire quality issues were insolvable."

With Asian manufacturing, unfortunately, when it comes to quality, you need to be on their door step more often than not, let them to their own devices, and quality begins to suffer or components get changed without notification.
Unless you are a large company, the cost of doing business in what is a relatively low margin and low quantity market,becomes uneconomical, it's just the way it is.

Litz wire is not cheap and this does not help matters either.

Just my experience with manufacturing in Asia.

On the Big coils, as has been pointed out, there is a thread currently active  and a number of people doing work on this including Aziz,IBgold and  myself and a host of others.
Everything is a trade off with metal detecting /coils and finding the best size and type of coil is an ever absorbing subject.

Hats off to existing coil manufactures and folk like IBgold, it's a lot of work to get a large coil quiet and sensitive but you can do it...but how many folk are  there that would buy such large coils and how much are people willing to pay for such a coil?.. I'm talking say, 1.2m...

As I said margins are low when you factor quality and repairs into  a product..and that I would suggest is the main reason extreme sized coils are mainly DIY

Secret squirrel projects are with us mainly  due to trolls that frequent forums and twist legitimate and interesting threads to the point of no return, so why would anyone with  ideas share too much?

Anyways, have a squiz through the DIY areas of this forum there is plenty of discussion. happy face

Oh I would add one thing, Big coils require a slower sweep pattern, or slow speed if being towed....the chance of missing a deep target with a large coil is higher than one would expect....you might pick up a large deep target with a faster speed but go too fast you will surely miss those medium to small ones lurking at depth...
and to make it more interesting, given the conical field pattern of detection with a mono or CC coil, you need to allow for a lesser depth for good overlapping of search area, for maximum economy of detection...so in essence, you may need a bigger coil...or just go slower  lol...just my 2 bobs anyways..

cheers

muntari



Let me paraphrase my question.

Is there anyone here interested in the use of 41" Carbon Fiber concentric coil for GPX or any other PI?
For IB detectors the coil is 900 grams heavy. For PI will be probably up to 1100 grams as the Litz wire is heavier than the Aluminium wire used for the IB version.

I also manufacture 30" concentric coils with weight of only 600 grams. The same size like the ones on my two box picture.

All my questions were pointed to the possibility to offer something I know you have not seen yet and also you are not aware of its existence on the market.
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sd220d Digger
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« Reply #8 on: Saturday January 26 2019 00:28:52 AEDT AM »

  
  
"the Litz wire quality issues were insolvable."

With Asian manufacturing, unfortunately, when it comes to quality, you need to be on their door step more often than not, let them to their own devices, and quality begins to suffer or components get changed without notification.
Unless you are a large company, the cost of doing business in what is a relatively low margin and low quantity market,becomes uneconomical, it's just the way it is.

Litz wire is not cheap and this does not help matters either.

Just my experience with manufacturing in Asia.

On the Big coils, as has been pointed out, there is a thread currently active  and a number of people doing work on this including Aziz,IBgold and  myself and a host of others.
Everything is a trade off with metal detecting /coils and finding the best size and type of coil is an ever absorbing subject.

Hats off to existing coil manufactures and folk like IBgold, it's a lot of work to get a large coil quiet and sensitive but you can do it...but how many folk are  there that would buy such large coils and how much are people willing to pay for such a coil?.. I'm talking say, 1.2m...

As I said margins are low when you factor quality and repairs into  a product..and that I would suggest is the main reason extreme sized coils are mainly DIY

Secret squirrel projects are with us mainly  due to trolls that frequent forums and twist legitimate and interesting threads to the point of no return, so why would anyone with  ideas share too much?

Anyways, have a squiz through the DIY areas of this forum there is plenty of discussion. happy face

Oh I would add one thing, Big coils require a slower sweep pattern, or slow speed if being towed....the chance of missing a deep target with a large coil is higher than one would expect....you might pick up a large deep target with a faster speed but go too fast you will surely miss those medium to small ones lurking at depth...
and to make it more interesting, given the conical field pattern of detection with a mono or CC coil, you need to allow for a lesser depth for good overlapping of search area, for maximum economy of detection...so in essence, you may need a bigger coil...or just go slower  lol...just my 2 bobs anyways..

cheers

muntari



Let me paraphrase my question.

Is there anyone here interested in the use of 41" Carbon Fiber concentric coil for GPX or any other PI?
For IB detectors the coil is 900 grams heavy. For PI will be probably up to 1100 grams as the Litz wire is heavier than the Aluminium wire used for the IB version.

I also manufacture 30" concentric coils with weight of only 600 grams. The same size like the ones on my two box picture.

All my questions were pointed to the possibility to offer something I know you have not seen yet and also you are not aware of its existence on the market.


So are you saying that you are the owner of NEXUS DETECTORS in Bulgaria?

  
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Muntari
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« Reply #9 on: Saturday January 26 2019 01:04:19 AEDT AM »

  
  
  
"the Litz wire quality issues were insolvable."

With Asian manufacturing, unfortunately, when it comes to quality, you need to be on their door step more often than not, let them to their own devices, and quality begins to suffer or components get changed without notification.
Unless you are a large company, the cost of doing business in what is a relatively low margin and low quantity market,becomes uneconomical, it's just the way it is.

Litz wire is not cheap and this does not help matters either.

Just my experience with manufacturing in Asia.

On the Big coils, as has been pointed out, there is a thread currently active  and a number of people doing work on this including Aziz,IBgold and  myself and a host of others.
Everything is a trade off with metal detecting /coils and finding the best size and type of coil is an ever absorbing subject.

Hats off to existing coil manufactures and folk like IBgold, it's a lot of work to get a large coil quiet and sensitive but you can do it...but how many folk are  there that would buy such large coils and how much are people willing to pay for such a coil?.. I'm talking say, 1.2m...

As I said margins are low when you factor quality and repairs into  a product..and that I would suggest is the main reason extreme sized coils are mainly DIY

Secret squirrel projects are with us mainly  due to trolls that frequent forums and twist legitimate and interesting threads to the point of no return, so why would anyone with  ideas share too much?

Anyways, have a squiz through the DIY areas of this forum there is plenty of discussion. happy face

Oh I would add one thing, Big coils require a slower sweep pattern, or slow speed if being towed....the chance of missing a deep target with a large coil is higher than one would expect....you might pick up a large deep target with a faster speed but go too fast you will surely miss those medium to small ones lurking at depth...
and to make it more interesting, given the conical field pattern of detection with a mono or CC coil, you need to allow for a lesser depth for good overlapping of search area, for maximum economy of detection...so in essence, you may need a bigger coil...or just go slower  lol...just my 2 bobs anyways..

cheers

muntari



Let me paraphrase my question.

Is there anyone here interested in the use of 41" Carbon Fiber concentric coil for GPX or any other PI?
For IB detectors the coil is 900 grams heavy. For PI will be probably up to 1100 grams as the Litz wire is heavier than the Aluminium wire used for the IB version.

I also manufacture 30" concentric coils with weight of only 600 grams. The same size like the ones on my two box picture.

All my questions were pointed to the possibility to offer something I know you have not seen yet and also you are not aware of its existence on the market.


So are you saying that you are the owner of NEXUS DETECTORS in Bulgaria?

  

I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #10 on: Saturday January 26 2019 02:56:05 AEDT AM »

  


I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari

Not really. I have been manufacturing these big coils for IB, but never for PI, so I do not know exactly what to expect with the PI detectors.
On the other hand I do not need to gather info on who is doing what, because the Internet gives me a very good idea of what people are not doing and this is where my work is getting at.

All I am trying to do is establish a dialog and learn of what my potential customers want as I realise far too well that my personal ideas regarding metal detecting ( I am a treasure hunter my self) do not resonate in the same way with other people.

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Dontbstme
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« Reply #11 on: Saturday January 26 2019 03:00:51 AEDT AM »

  


So are you saying that you are the owner of NEXUS DETECTORS in Bulgaria?

  

Yes I am.
Nexus is the smallest of all metal detector manufacturers in the world. One man in one workshop since 2004. This is what allowed  me to develop the unorthodox designs Nexus is known for. I always look for the maximum performance results, not for the maximum sales.
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Muntari
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« Reply #12 on: Saturday January 26 2019 11:48:08 AEDT AM »

  
  


I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari

Not really. I have been manufacturing these big coils for IB, but never for PI, so I do not know exactly what to expect with the PI detectors.
On the other hand I do not need to gather info on who is doing what, because the Internet gives me a very good idea of what people are not doing and this is where my work is getting at.

All I am trying to do is establish a dialog and learn of what my potential customers want as I realise far too well that my personal ideas regarding metal detecting ( I am a treasure hunter my self) do not resonate in the same way with other people.



Thanks for your honesty.
Thinking outside the square is a good thing, The QED was born by outside the square thinking from Howard. Other members alike, Tinkerer,Ibgold,Aziz, I could list many, so you are not alone on this forum, hell, I get paid to think outside the square.
As to one man band metal detectors the QED is manufactured by one man and through a lot of hot water and trolls doing their best to ridicule and prevent it coming to market.
We have pretty much seen and heard it all on this forum over the years, so when someone starts dancing around questions and making statements a troll is suspected immediately.
Some of us are engineers,some are not so technical but most of us have prospecting at heart, as a hobby, as an income, as an interest . Collective knowledge is high, sharing information, well that is up to individual members how much, no one is going to share prospective commercial information anymore, why would, or should they, trolls have stifled so many good forums, it's become a joke, so people take conversations off line...and forums suffer
If you have a product to sell, tell us all about it, start a new thread and inform members, kick it off from there...oh and read plenty of Ml pâtents if you want to sell product here in Oz...

Cheers

Muntari

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« Reply #13 on: Saturday January 26 2019 11:49:38 AEDT AM »

  
  
  


I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari

Not really. I have been manufacturing these big coils for IB, but never for PI, so I do not know exactly what to expect with the PI detectors.
On the other hand I do not need to gather info on who is doing what, because the Internet gives me a very good idea of what people are not doing and this is where my work is getting at.

All I am trying to do is establish a dialog and learn of what my potential customers want as I realise far too well that my personal ideas regarding metal detecting ( I am a treasure hunter my self) do not resonate in the same way with other people.



Thanks for your honesty.
Thinking outside the square is a good thing, The QED was born by outside the square thinking from Howard . Other members alike, Tinkerer,Ibgold,Aziz, I could list many, so you are not alone on this forum, hell, I get paid to think outside the square.
As to one man band metal detectors the QED is manufactured by one man and through a lot of hot water and trolls doing their best to ridicule and prevent it coming to market.
We have pretty much seen and heard it all on this forum over the years, so when someone starts dancing around questions and making statements a troll is suspected immediately.
Some of us are engineers,some are not so technical but most of us have prospecting at heart, as a hobby, as an income, as an interest . Collective knowledge is high, sharing information, well that is up to individual members how much, no one is going to share prospective commercial information anymore, why would, or should they, trolls have stifled so many good forums, it's become a joke, so people take conversations off line...and forums suffer
If you have a product to sell, tell us all about it, start a new thread and inform members, kick it off from there...oh and read plenty of Ml pâtents if you want to sell product here in Oz...

Cheers

Muntari


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« Reply #14 on: Saturday January 26 2019 11:58:37 AEDT AM »

I edited last post for typo reasons ...around second sentence.....
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« Reply #15 on: Saturday January 26 2019 12:20:56 AEDT PM »

  

I edited last post for typo reasons ...around second sentence.....


Muntari ,

you  CAN modify / correct / edit your original post if you wish. There is a edit / modify tab / hot link around above or below the post.
(edit: Its in top right corner)  Just being helpful.  smile

Great post you made (reply #12) summarising much of the history of the QED & ideas people / developers here  respect

Huego
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« Reply #16 on: Saturday January 26 2019 12:35:12 AEDT PM »

  
  

I edited last post for typo reasons ...around second sentence.....


Muntari ,

you  CAN modify / correct / edit your original post if you wish. There is a edit / modify tab / hot link around above or below the post.
(edit: Its in top right corner)  Just being helpful.  smile

Great post you made (reply #12) summarising much of the history of the QED & ideas people / developers here  respect

Huego

Cheers, thanks Heuego, I usually do that but on my iPad today and the edit icons are displayed as ??
Characters...so I was guessing which button to hit  happy face

Muntari
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sd220d Digger
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« Reply #17 on: Saturday January 26 2019 13:17:23 AEDT PM »

  
  
  


I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari

Not really. I have been manufacturing these big coils for IB, but never for PI, so I do not know exactly what to expect with the PI detectors.
On the other hand I do not need to gather info on who is doing what, because the Internet gives me a very good idea of what people are not doing and this is where my work is getting at.

All I am trying to do is establish a dialog and learn of what my potential customers want as I realise far too well that my personal ideas regarding metal detecting ( I am a treasure hunter my self) do not resonate in the same way with other people.



Thanks for your honesty.
Thinking outside the square is a good thing, The QED was born by outside the square thinking from Howard. Other members alike, Tinkerer,Ibgold,Aziz, I could list many, so you are not alone on this forum, hell, I get paid to think outside the square.
As to one man band metal detectors the QED is manufactured by one man and through a lot of hot water and trolls doing their best to ridicule and prevent it coming to market.
We have pretty much seen and heard it all on this forum over the years, so when someone starts dancing around questions and making statements a troll is suspected immediately.
Some of us are engineers,some are not so technical but most of us have prospecting at heart, as a hobby, as an income, as an interest . Collective knowledge is high, sharing information, well that is up to individual members how much, no one is going to share prospective commercial information anymore, why would, or should they, trolls have stifled so many good forums, it's become a joke, so people take conversations off line...and forums suffer
If you have a product to sell, tell us all about it, start a new thread and inform members, kick it off from there...oh and read plenty of Ml pâtents if you want to sell product here in Oz...

Cheers

Muntari



Well said Manturi.
Cheers,   drinking red wine

PS we are having marinated lamb on the BBQ for Australia day
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Dontbstme
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« Reply #18 on: Saturday January 26 2019 18:28:37 AEDT PM »

  
  
  
  


I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari

Not really. I have been manufacturing these big coils for IB, but never for PI, so I do not know exactly what to expect with the PI detectors.
On the other hand I do not need to gather info on who is doing what, because the Internet gives me a very good idea of what people are not doing and this is where my work is getting at.

All I am trying to do is establish a dialog and learn of what my potential customers want as I realise far too well that my personal ideas regarding metal detecting ( I am a treasure hunter my self) do not resonate in the same way with other people.



Thanks for your honesty.
Thinking outside the square is a good thing, The QED was born by outside the square thinking from Howard. Other members alike, Tinkerer,Ibgold,Aziz, I could list many, so you are not alone on this forum, hell, I get paid to think outside the square.
As to one man band metal detectors the QED is manufactured by one man and through a lot of hot water and trolls doing their best to ridicule and prevent it coming to market.
We have pretty much seen and heard it all on this forum over the years, so when someone starts dancing around questions and making statements a troll is suspected immediately.
Some of us are engineers,some are not so technical but most of us have prospecting at heart, as a hobby, as an income, as an interest . Collective knowledge is high, sharing information, well that is up to individual members how much, no one is going to share prospective commercial information anymore, why would, or should they, trolls have stifled so many good forums, it's become a joke, so people take conversations off line...and forums suffer
If you have a product to sell, tell us all about it, start a new thread and inform members, kick it off from there...oh and read plenty of Ml pâtents if you want to sell product here in Oz...

Cheers

Muntari


Thanks Muntari.
I surely didn't mean to troll anyone.
As for ML patents I honestly don't have the patience to read trough out all of them. And to put it in different perspective I just have somewhat very unorthodox approach to solving the various detecting problems.

But look at the video below. I made this video before I released the Nexus MP model. Now many have argued the setting were not right, which is the most common troll bs if anyone would like to downgrade a claim.
The way I outgunned the most advanced IB detector was by a super stable oscillator and a variable damping resistor over the RX. For extreme cases the damping was as high as 1.5 Ohms across the RX. The current Nexus MP is superior to the prototype on the video.

  

On this test the ML was set on the sensitivity levels recommended by the units processor as I know that higher sensitivity settings would likely lead to detecting nothing, because of internal overload.
The ground is highly magnetic and well loaded with all sorts of mineralisation.

I was actually kind to the CTX not showing the full extend of the differences between the CTX and the MP prototype.

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« Reply #19 on: Saturday January 26 2019 20:29:52 AEDT PM »

  
  
  
  


I am a little lost here Dontbsme,

If you make such a coil, then you would know the benefits and some of the problems with these size coils on our goldfields.
Your questions seemed to be aimed at finding information on who is doing what..

cheers

muntari

Not really. I have been manufacturing these big coils for IB, but never for PI, so I do not know exactly what to expect with the PI detectors.
On the other hand I do not need to gather info on who is doing what, because the Internet gives me a very good idea of what people are not doing and this is where my work is getting at.

All I am trying to do is establish a dialog and learn of what my potential customers want as I realise far too well that my personal ideas regarding metal detecting ( I am a treasure hunter my self) do not resonate in the same way with other people.



Thanks for your honesty.
Thinking outside the square is a good thing, The QED was born by outside the square thinking from Howard. Other members alike, Tinkerer,Ibgold,Aziz, I could list many, so you are not alone on this forum, hell, I get paid to think outside the square.
As to one man band metal detectors the QED is manufactured by one man and through a lot of hot water and trolls doing their best to ridicule and prevent it coming to market.
We have pretty much seen and heard it all on this forum over the years, so when someone starts dancing around questions and making statements a troll is suspected immediately.
Some of us are engineers,some are not so technical but most of us have prospecting at heart, as a hobby, as an income, as an interest . Collective knowledge is high, sharing information, well that is up to individual members how much, no one is going to share prospective commercial information anymore, why would, or should they, trolls have stifled so many good forums, it's become a joke, so people take conversations off line...and forums suffer
If you have a product to sell, tell us all about it, start a new thread and inform members, kick it off from there...oh and read plenty of Ml pâtents if you want to sell product here in Oz...

Cheers

Muntari



Well said Manturi.
Cheers,   drinking red wine

PS we are having marinated lamb on the BBQ for Australia day

Cheers SD220....enjoy the lamb lol
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All posts submitted by myself to this forum are my opinion and are done so without prejudice
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