northwest concentric coils
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Thursday August 22 2019 02:26:36 AEST AM
Home Help Login Register
News: Welcome to the Australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum founded in July 2010, an add free totally independent forum with over 70 boards and paid for and managed by the Admin.Topics: 9,245  Total forum Posts:46,357 Members:833. Total page views:12,263,130  Admin and  forum and domain name owner :marjen at optusnet.com.au. Guests can only see a limited number of boards at present and cannot see any hot links. Guests cannot post and never will be permitted too!Registration of new members must be approved by admin.
 All  original Photos and posts and  original materials displayed on this site are COPYRIGHTED and remain the property of the poster and the  Austalian electronicgoldprospectingforum.com. All messages on this forum express the personal views of the author and should not be interpreted as necessarily being in accord with those of the forum owner and neither the owner of this forum and its domain name nor SMF or the forum software developers or the forum host shall be held responsible for the content of any message. Admin reserves the right to remove any offensive or objectionable posts. No defamatory material or politics/religion or issues of race will be permitted.
QED news
QED on facebook
link-https://www.facebook.com/groups/245308699667153/403446933853328/?comment_id=403472030517485&reply_comment_id=403476793850342&notif_id=1562580344994993&notif_t=group_comment
New GB timing algorithm being tested in the QED.
Climate news
Contribution to global warming by Australia. Australia has one of the highest per capita emissions of carbon dioxide in the world, with 0.3% of the world's population it produces 1.4% and rising(not the .08% the  finders forum dope "Inhere" claims!) of the world's greenhouse gases. Australia also has the highest per capita emissions in the OECD, with 26 tonnes of greenhouse gasses being emitted per person every year.
Australia's C02 emissions rise for the 4th year in a row.

australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: concentric coils 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: concentric coils  (Read 3683 times)
authere
invited members
Junior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 348


« on: Wednesday May 14 2014 12:57:23 AEST PM »

Hi All,

With concentric coils the RX is the smaller coil in the centre , what if the RX coil was the larger coil and the TX the smaller one

Extra large coils penetrate deep but it has been said its not the penetrating that gets those big deep nuggs but the receive , so having a larger receive coil makes sense especially on very large coils

So... , if an 18" dia TX has a larger RX coil for receive I wonder how this would effect these deep larger nuggs

Ron
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #1 on: Wednesday May 14 2014 17:51:02 AEST PM »

Hi Ron,

if the 18-inch dia TX would have a larger dia RX, it won't be an 18-inch coil anymore. *LOL*
You still could use the larger dia coil as TX and the smaller (18-inch) as RX and would really get more.

It is always better in regards to ground response and EMI noise induction, when the TX is larger than the RX.

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
authere
invited members
Junior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 348


« Reply #2 on: Wednesday May 14 2014 20:07:15 AEST PM »

Hi Aziz,

True, the normal way to make concentric coils is to have a larger TX but the theory of the RX being the important coil of the two, I was thinking that if a conc. coil could be made that way it would help with the detection of large deep nuggs

EMI out bush don't really exist, nearest town to me at the moment is 30km away and that has a population of a couple of hundred, the worst would be jets flying to Karratha or Broome

Small concentric coils have always been made with the RX in the middle and half the dia. of the TX but with a huge coil could we change this configuration

Ron
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #3 on: Wednesday May 14 2014 21:22:57 AEST PM »

Hell Ron, *LOL*

let's analyse it now. Let's give it a fair try. We can find the answer.
happy face

I'll make three coil simulation variations to check this regards to EMI noise induction, ground response and target response. BTW, the EMI noise induction is alyways present even you are out in the bush. It might not be as much as in the populated regions however.

Let's look, which one makes the real run.
My betting office is open now. And the infamous forum-trolls can make big big claims now. *LOL*
excited excited excited

Cheers,
^sif


* TXRXCoilWhatIsBetter01.gif (43.94 KB, 1024x742 - viewed 337 times.)
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #4 on: Thursday May 15 2014 00:27:13 AEST AM »

Hi all,


I have finished the coil simulations (coil modelling and calculations) but I have to put the results into the Excel table and have to take the EMI noise induction and ground response into account yet. And I have to check the calculations once again.

Which distance to ground is more convenient?
1 inch or (almost grinding the ground)
2 inches? (more appropriate I think due to coil housing taking more space)
Feedback here please.

That will be the famous Ron's Paradox in the coil technology discussion.
Stay tuned..
excited
Cheers,
^sif
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
authere
invited members
Junior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 348


« Reply #5 on: Thursday May 15 2014 15:33:16 AEST PM »

Hi Aziz,

Good on ya for humouring me!!!, 50mm is the go, I wouldn't be scrubbing any large coil and this helps to minimise the ground effects

We could call it Big Ears, no not Noddy you dimwits, BIG EARS and this fits in with the assumption that the RX coil is the most important coil when searching for those deep, large nuggs

Ron
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #6 on: Thursday May 15 2014 19:06:35 AEST PM »

The coil simulation analysis has been finished.
The "Ron's Paradox" has been solved too.
happy face

Did the forum-trolls make any big claims? I have some tar & chicken feather left over ... *LOL*

Any ideas, what's the solution look like?
excited

Below are the three coil models. First being the 18-inch reference mono coil.
Green: RX coil
Red: TX coil
Cheers,
^sif


* TXRXCoilWhatIsBetter02-monocoil-18inch.gif (23.25 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 309 times.)

* TXRXCoilWhatIsBetter03-9inchTX,18inchRX.gif (37.41 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 341 times.)

* TXRXCoilWhatIsBetter04-18inchTX,9inchRX.gif (37.41 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 363 times.)
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
mylab
invited members
Newbie
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 194


« Reply #7 on: Thursday May 15 2014 19:22:27 AEST PM »

I would just like to add my comments to an interesting thread from authere along with the great diagrams by Aziz so I look forward to the end result.

Keep up the good work.

Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #8 on: Thursday May 15 2014 19:27:37 AEST PM »

  
I would just like to add my comments to an interesting thread from authere along with the great diagrams by Aziz so I look forward to the end result.

Keep up the good work.

Yeah, I'm really happy, that Ron has raised the interesting question.
The results are really very very interesting.
excited excited excited
^sif,
long live the freakin coil software
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
geof_junk
QED users
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 179



« Reply #9 on: Thursday May 15 2014 20:33:51 AEST PM »

I will say at least Ron design would be the lightest concentric coil arrangement as the largest coil would have the smallest current requirement.
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #10 on: Thursday May 15 2014 20:37:35 AEST PM »

Comeon boys!,

hurry up before I get arrested and jailed by the kraut capital fascists and anarchists.
You may refresh your brain with the following thread:

Seperate Concentric Co-planar TX/RX PI Coil
  

^sif,
wanted!, alive or dead alive, legally nominated for numerous arrest warrants *LOL*

Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #11 on: Friday May 16 2014 19:27:03 AEST PM »

The simulation results first (see zipped Excel file below).
We can talk about the results later.
happy face
Cheers,
^sif

* Ron'sParadox-CoilComp8(CoilCMP5)-01.zip (21.88 KB - downloaded 122 times.)
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #12 on: Saturday May 17 2014 00:36:08 AEST AM »

MUAHAHAHAHAHA....
I've been obviously banned from Geotech.


Quote
You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never


What is it? The envy being the "World's Best Coil Meister Ever"(c)(r)(tm)? *LOL*
The Thermo Nuclear War & Melt-down is coming... *LOL*

^sif
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
mylab
invited members
Newbie
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 194


« Reply #13 on: Monday May 19 2014 19:34:09 AEST PM »

  
The simulation results first (see zipped Excel file below).
We can talk about the results later.
happy face
Cheers,
^sif

Curious if anyone able to talk about Aziz's simulation results on both Concentric designs? 

Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #14 on: Monday May 19 2014 20:38:46 AEST PM »

They are all waiting for getting me jailed first. Obviously.

^sif
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #15 on: Tuesday May 20 2014 17:30:26 AEST PM »

15 times downloaded - 0 times comments.
scared scared scared
So much work for nothing?
Oh boys!, I'm going voluntarily to the jail or insane asylum.

^sif
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Mechanic
regular members
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 936


« Reply #16 on: Tuesday May 20 2014 18:02:49 AEST PM »

  
MUAHAHAHAHAHA....
I've been obviously banned from Geotech.


Quote
You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never


What is it? The envy being the "World's Best Coil Meister Ever"(c)(r)(tm)? *LOL*
The Thermo Nuclear War & Melt-down is coming... *LOL*

^sif

Hi Aziz,

We need another emoticon with one eyebrow raised....

Looks good! Really good!

Cheers Mick
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #17 on: Tuesday May 20 2014 19:44:09 AEST PM »

  
  
MUAHAHAHAHAHA....
I've been obviously banned from Geotech.


Quote
You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never


What is it? The envy being the "World's Best Coil Meister Ever"(c)(r)(tm)? *LOL*
The Thermo Nuclear War & Melt-down is coming... *LOL*

^sif

Hi Aziz,

We need another emoticon with one eyebrow raised....

Looks good! Really good!

Cheers Mick


What about two eyebrows? (see below).

What is looking good?
Cheers,
Aziz


* Mr.SpockWillEatYouForABreakfast.jpg (22.65 KB, 364x371 - viewed 262 times.)
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Mechanic
regular members
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 936


« Reply #18 on: Tuesday May 20 2014 20:39:54 AEST PM »

Large tx, small rx with increased preamp gain. The rx coil would receive a lot less ground response, equivalent to using a mono coil 6" off the ground(depending how much much smaller the rx is to the tx) With the ground noise and emi noise less, the gain can be increased.

Cheers Mick
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #19 on: Tuesday May 20 2014 20:50:02 AEST PM »

  
Large tx, small rx with increased preamp gain. The rx coil would receive a lot less ground response, equivalent to using a mono coil 6" off the ground(depending how much much smaller the rx is to the tx) With the ground noise and emi noise less, the gain can be increased.

Cheers Mick

Yep, the simulation results are saying this. This is very very obvious.

But there is a very very big advantage.
This coil can go deep for decent size gold and fly$hit stuff at the same time.
Where pure large mono coils suffer from more ground response, less sensitivity for small nuggets and more EMI noise induction, the large TX small RX coil can overcome these issues.

BTW, you can either increase the TX coil current, RX inductance or RX amplifier gain. It's almost the same.

Who is finally going to use a (large) separate TX/RX coil now?
happy face
^sif
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: concentric coils « previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder

BisdakworldClassic design by JV PACO-IN
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!