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Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors => Detector Coils => Topic started by: Doug on Monday February 8 2016 13:06:13 AEDT PM



Title: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Monday February 8 2016 13:06:13 AEDT PM
http://arizonaoutback.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12402
doug ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday February 8 2016 18:27:07 AEDT PM
0.8g at 17"  ::08:: ::08::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Monday February 8 2016 20:26:30 AEDT PM
  
0.8g at 17"  ::08:: ::08::

I missed  that!!!! ::75::
doug ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: gef12 on Monday February 8 2016 20:52:41 AEDT PM
Hmmmmmmmm


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday February 8 2016 22:10:31 AEDT PM
It's the ER factor again.
dealER rubbER rulER


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Monday February 8 2016 22:35:30 AEDT PM
Pinpointing exactly where a target is with this type of coil can be difficult and this fella was way off the mark when he dug his hole to that depth.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: BILLY on Tuesday February 9 2016 02:42:23 AEDT AM
  I have met Jagger and been detecting with him.  He is not a liar and he did find the nugget as he says.  So stop saying he did not find the nugget with the coil he said at the depth he said.  Why do you always look for a reason to put down a Minelab machine Doug?


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday February 9 2016 06:24:08 AEDT AM
Billy, always so quick to defend the bullshyzer.
Make a real hero of yourself and post a video of an AIR TEST of a 0.8g nugget being detected at 17".
After you fail at that perhaps you can have a go at Steve Herschbach's claim of a 2.5oz at OVER 2.5 feet.




Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Tuesday February 9 2016 09:33:59 AEDT AM
Yes I too would be interested to see a video of an air test result on that 0.8g nugget and the timing /settings he used.

Hopefully he also then name the coil size correctly as a 17x13 coil.

Gary..


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday February 9 2016 10:17:27 AEDT AM
While Billy is in a mood to defend bullshyzer, perhaps he would like to have a go at defending this load.


http://www.coinweek.com/coins/metal-detecting-2/australian-gold-prospector-unearths-87-ounce-gold-nugget/


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Alluvium on Tuesday February 9 2016 10:48:07 AEDT AM
Hi Doug.

Tell them their Dreaming!!!

Dreaming, I'm always Dreaming, hoping one day, that I will find.

Laa Laa, Laaa, La La. And the music goes round and round.

Cheers Aluvium.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Mechanic on Tuesday February 9 2016 18:04:52 AEDT PM
Hi Guys,

Well from what I have seen and found with the evo coils, nothing surprises me! Most times I have been left shaking my head at the size of the hole for the tiny piece that has come out. My Mrs found a tiny bit(.2~.3g??) using the 12" evo in a spot that I had done over previously on many occasions and it was probably about 4~5" down. Also when I tried out the 17x13 I went to another spot that I had found a few in the past and found a wiry .2g bit about 4 or more inches down. Admittedly the original signal was sweet FA but I remember being gobsmacked by the depth. I had previously done this spot over with the sadie and other coils.

Cheers Mick


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Tuesday February 9 2016 19:08:55 AEDT PM
Yes Mick those depths you speak of are realistic and are at the depths that my 12" Evo is capable of.

Recently out of curiosity did some air testing on some nuggets with a 7000 and with the 12" Evo on my 5000 which easily matched the 7000.

Although I was only comparing High Yield / Difficult on the 7000 to Fine Gold with my 5000, both detectors only got 6" on a roundish 0.3 gram nugget.

Even on a 2.3 gram nugget both detectors got no where near 17" and I doubt Sens/Extra or Normal would be much better.

Anyway Sens/Extra and Normal are out of the question on my goldfield and the fella with the 7000 had to use his Difficult setting to cope with the mineralisation.

Gary..


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday February 10 2016 06:58:40 AEDT AM
How about we wait for Billy to reproduce "the feat" in a video.
Billy knows how such speculation and bullshyzer could be quashed forever but he is not likely to suggest it.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: moodz on Wednesday February 10 2016 08:47:59 AEDT AM
...flat wound coil ? My own flat wound picks up small bits at twice the range of the ML "reference" coil ... does not extend to big targets at more than 1.5 coil diameters away though.

Almost tempted to buy one an take it apart to see what all the fuss is about. ::406::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: BILLY on Wednesday February 10 2016 09:42:46 AEDT AM
  
How about we wait for Billy to reproduce "the feat" in a video.
Billy knows how such speculation and bullshyzer could be quashed forever but he is not likely to suggest it.


  Send me over a video camera Bugwhiskers since you are calling me out.  I will take a video for you.  Or the other way you and Doug always say "prove me wrong" with proof.  I am sure you can not prove me wrong, as I can not prove you wrong in your statements over the years of stuff you and Doug have claimed.  Butt I bet you will be very upset over someone asking the same of you.  Settle down and get another hobby that keeps your blood pressure normal.  Same for Doug, keep off the forums you visit that upset ya my frien.  You both are too old like me to create such a rokus. 

   I will send ya my address since you are so worried about a video where you can send me a video camera to satisfy your obsession.  Just send me a PM.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday February 10 2016 10:05:47 AEDT AM
So Mr Billy, you want to cop out by saying you don't have a video camera or even a cell phone with a video camera. Of course everyone is going to believe that.
What could Minelab do for consumers that would end speculation over target detection distances and improvements of new models over old models forever?


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Wednesday February 10 2016 10:45:33 AEDT AM
  
  
How about we wait for Billy to reproduce "the feat" in a video.
Billy knows how such speculation and bullshyzer could be quashed forever but he is not likely to suggest it.


  Send me over a video camera Bugwhiskers since you are calling me out.  I will take a video for you.  Or the other way you and Doug always say "prove me wrong" with proof.  I am sure you can not prove me wrong, as I can not prove you wrong in your statements over the years of stuff you and Doug have claimed.  Butt I bet you will be very upset over someone asking the same of you.  Settle down and get another hobby that keeps your blood pressure normal.  Same for Doug, keep off the forums you visit that upset ya my frien.  You both are too old like me to create such a rokus.  

   I will send ya my address since you are so worried about a video where you can send me a video camera to satisfy your obsession.  Just send me a PM.

What you forget is that their are people on this forum that have over the years done an enormous amount of testing of ML detectors and coils  using natural nuggets at test sites and a variety of  air testing. Some here have also found an enormous amount of gold over 40 years of detecting and hence know what is possible and not possible in terms of depth.eg testing has shown that one nugget of around 30 grams could NOT be detected in a 14" test hole with a ML GPX  4500  in enhance!! ::16 :: In addition BW has designed and built his own Pi detector's and also knows from his testing what is possible and what is not possible.All would agree that a typical 0.8 grammer  detected at 17”is highly unlikely and probably impossible. It most likely is another case of pinpointing error where the nugget was in the side wall and was dug past and then fell into the bottom of the hole  or that another target was overlying the nugget and this was what was initially detected.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: BILLY on Wednesday February 10 2016 11:59:31 AEDT AM
  
So Mr Billy, you want to cop out by saying you don't have a video camera or even a cell phone with a video camera. Of course everyone is going to believe that.
What could Minelab do for consumers that would end speculation over target detection distances and improvements of new models over old models forever?


  No video in my flip phone.  No video camera either.  Why do you think I asked you for one since you seem so focused on it.  Will you send me one to satisfy your need?  If not please drop the subject.  Maybe Doug will loan you one to send me.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Wednesday February 10 2016 12:24:38 AEDT PM
  
  
So Mr Billy, you want to cop out by saying you don't have a video camera or even a cell phone with a video camera. Of course everyone is going to believe that.
What could Minelab do for consumers that would end speculation over target detection distances and improvements of new models over old models forever?


  No video in my flip phone.  No video camera either.  Why do you think I asked you for one since you seem so focused on it.  Will you send me one to satisfy your need?  If not please drop the subject.  Maybe Doug will loan you one to send me.

Sorry Billy this is just  a cop out!!!! I am sure that you or the tester can arrange to borrow a video camera or a camera able to take videos.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday February 10 2016 13:13:20 AEDT PM
Billy hasn't responded to this....

http://www.coinweek.com/coins/metal-detecting-2/australian-gold-prospector-unearths-87-ounce-gold-nugget/

Another cop out.



Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday February 10 2016 13:21:25 AEDT PM
Billy, there are plenty of video cameras on ebay for around $20.
Would you like us to pass the hat around for you?


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Dave on Wednesday February 10 2016 21:27:07 AEDT PM
I can pick up a 5 cent piece at 18" using a 8" minelab coil so it wouldn't be impossible if the 0.8 nugget was hammered flat


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Wednesday February 10 2016 22:11:05 AEDT PM
  
I can pick up a 5 cent piece at 18" using a 8" minelab coil so it wouldn't be impossible if the 0.8 nugget was hammered flat

 Possibly true! Would be nice to see a picture of the nugget.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday February 11 2016 16:02:35 AEDT PM
I observed at a test patch about a month ago a solid, smooth, flat 1g nugget being detected best  10 inches by a 4500 in Normal timing using a 12" EVO coil. Having witnessed this I say that an "average" 0.8g at 17" is just ludicrous.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Thursday February 11 2016 23:40:22 AEDT PM
  
I can pick up a 5 cent piece at 18" using a 8" minelab coil so it wouldn't be impossible if the 0.8 nugget was hammered flat

Dave your 18" on a 5c coin with an 8" mono is impressive as I need an 18" mono to get the same.




Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Friday February 12 2016 00:10:05 AEDT AM
  

...flat wound coil ? My own flat wound picks up small bits at twice the range of the ML "reference" coil ... does not extend to big targets at more than 1.5 coil diameters away though.


Moodz,

 I am curious at the size of your own flat wound coil and the size of the ML "reference" coil that you speak of.

Gary..


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Alluvium on Friday February 12 2016 11:15:12 AEDT AM

Hi Doug.

Here are the results on some real testing. (Below).

Note this is on small gold, and the 17" x 13"Evo Elliptical Coil matches the 12" Evo.Round

It is a different story when the nuggets are bigger and deeper, as most would know.

Billy I have been at this gold finding game for 35 years, and these new flat wound coils are a Quantum leap in detector coil development. But like all things some things are impossible.

Why would you want to defend a Mates obvious mistake?? I give him the benefit of the doubt that it was not blatant BS.

As Doug said, digging past a tiny nugget is easily done, and can fool anyone when it drops down into the bottom of your deeper hole.

Cheers Alluvium.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday February 12 2016 11:29:09 AEDT AM
While such outrageous claims (0.8g @ 17") may be good for sales, spare a thought for those who own the same model and coil that cannot duplicate the "feat". I hope the ML repair department isn't inundated by the return of detectors deemed by their owners to be "below  par".


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Friday February 12 2016 15:20:57 AEDT PM
Alluvium, those are some intriguing results you have there.

Therefore I assume the ML "reference" coil that moodz makes mention of would most likely be the 11" mono or maybe the 11"DD although since we are talking flat wound then I would say the ML 11" mono.

Looking at your table of results for both the 12" & 17"x13" flat wound coils compared to the 11" coil then for moodz's flat wound to pick up small bits at twice the range it must be some impressive coil. Saying he would like to pull apart one of these new flat wound coils to see what all the fuss is about makes no sense if he is telling the truth about the results his coil can achieve, especially on the small bits. . Be good to see a table of results with his coil. No wonder I am curious on what size his flat wound coil is?

In regards to digging past a nugget I have done that on several occasions with my 12" Evo.

Gary..


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Friday February 12 2016 15:33:37 AEDT PM
  
Looking at your table of results for both the 12" & 17"x13" flat wound coils compared to the 11" coil then for moodz's flat wound to pick up small bits at twice the range it must be some impressive coil. Saying he would like to pull apart one of these new flat wound coils to see what all the fuss is about makes no sense if he is telling the truth about the results his coil can achieve, especially on the small bits. . Be good to see a table of results with his coil. No wonder I am curious on what size his flat wound coil is?
Gary..

Maybe with the Moodz its not the coil that is responsible for the  claimed increase in detection range  but the signal acquisition and signal processing method used in his detector?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Dave on Saturday February 13 2016 04:01:51 AEDT AM
  
  
I can pick up a 5 cent piece at 18" using a 8" minelab coil so it wouldn't be impossible if the 0.8 nugget was hammered flat

Dave your 18" on a 5c coin with an 8" mono is impressive as I need an 18" mono to get the same.


Yes, I'm impressed also,but mind you this is air testing. Very pleased with the new modded detector so far. If you need video evidence you'll have to wait till I take it out bush as It does't go that deep around town.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: moodz on Saturday February 13 2016 08:48:01 AEDT AM
  
  

...flat wound coil ? My own flat wound picks up small bits at twice the range of the ML "reference" coil ... does not extend to big targets at more than 1.5 coil diameters away though.


Moodz,

 I am curious at the size of your own flat wound coil and the size of the ML "reference" coil that you speak of.

Gary..

..its an 18 inch mono ... i will post a photo when i get back from the bush ..( somewhere near Gundagai at the moment :-)   )


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Saturday February 13 2016 12:18:52 AEDT PM
  

Yes, I'm impressed also,but mind you this is air testing. Very pleased with the new modded detector so far. If you need video evidence you'll have to wait till I take it out bush as It does't go that deep around town.


Dave, I did expect your result to be from an air test as many of my tests are also.

You have raised my interest since you mention your detector is newly modified which leads me to ask you, what model detector?

Also was it set to a special timing to achieve your result?

Gary..



Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Saturday February 13 2016 12:44:35 AEDT PM
  

..its an 18 inch mono ... i will post a photo when i get back from the bush ..( somewhere near Gundagai at the moment :-)   )


Okay thanks for your reply.

I take it then that there is a certain size nugget, and from it upwards, that your FW 18" mono can produce twice the range than the std ML11" mono?

I suppose to answer that question you would have to generalize as nuggets can vary going by Alluvium's test table as those results on the 0.7 gram and 1.8 gram with both FW coils were the same at 9 inches.

Gary..


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Dave on Saturday February 13 2016 15:01:38 AEDT PM
  
  

Yes, I'm impressed also,but mind you this is air testing. Very pleased with the new modded detector so far. If you need video evidence you'll have to wait till I take it out bush as It does't go that deep around town.


Dave, I did expect your result to be from an air test as many of my tests are also.

You have raised my interest since you mention your detector is newly modified which leads me to ask you, what model detector?

Also was it set to a special timing to achieve your result?

Gary..

I can say it's a f1a4L3 made by a member who posts on this site on occasion. I don't know if I should mention names as he always complains of being busy so I don't want to burden him with extra work lol. I can't remember the settings I used I just played around with it till it maxed out.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday February 13 2016 18:56:33 AEDT PM
Ahhhh a detector from the SD2200 era but one built to MIL specs and actually came with a test target.
The theory must be a soldier can't work with a faulty detector and potentially get a leg blown off...or worse. But it's OK for a prospector paying top dollar to miss out on targets if his detector is below par.

Gary, did you ever test a 5 cent piece with your SD2200?

Maybe it's time you flashed your cumulative test results over the years again.  ::10 ::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Saturday February 13 2016 22:58:21 AEDT PM
  

I can say it's a f1a4L3 made by a member who posts on this site on occasion. I don't know if I should mention names as he always complains of being busy so I don't want to burden him with extra work lol. I can't remember the settings I used I just played around with it till it maxed out.


Thanks Dave for your reply.

I think I know who you speak of here and he is a wiz on the SD's and by your results also on the FIA4's
 
Actually when I owned an SD2000 I had it highly modified by someone else who was performing modifications for the SD's.
I too played around with many different settings on offer with its modifications, however when the settings were maxed out it was near impossible to detect successfully the more the ground became mineralised even with the DD coils that were the preferred coil back then.

After it I purchased a SD2200 and used it for a short time which I enjoyed being able to operate a mono coil using its auto GB system. Boy some air test results with it were an eye opener especially on larger targets.

Sold it and updated to a GP3000 which I liked also, again able to operate a mono successfully using its Auto GB system. However air testing showed it was no better than the SD2200.

Finally I updated to a GPX5000 and again air tests showed little difference to the 2200 and 3000. Although being able to adjust Gain along with several other settings can add some extra punch if the ground allows. Its Smooth timings, in particular Fine Gold has produce more gold for me then the other three machines, be it small gold the majority.

Gary..



Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Sunday February 14 2016 00:46:27 AEDT AM
  

Gary, did you ever test a 5 cent piece with your SD2200?

Maybe it's time you flashed your cumulative test results over the years again.  ::10 ::


Hello bugwhishers,

No I did not do any tests with the 5c coin using the 2200 as the majority of my testing was with Gold nuggets, molded Lead pieces of varying sizes , two large pure Copper pieces and the infamous Aluminum Block.

Actually our 75% Copper 25% Nickel coins can produce impressive air test results.

Now since you ask for some of my cumulative test results from over the years then here are some.

Gary..  



Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: WM6 on Sunday February 14 2016 02:29:22 AEDT AM
Thanks to post this very interesting test results, Garry.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday February 14 2016 05:46:57 AEDT AM
Thanks Gary, always very enlightening.
It would appear that 20" on a 5 cent piece and 29" on the AL block are the benchmarks.
10" on a 1.6g nugget shows the claim of 17" on a 0.8g to be, shall we say, "a mistake".


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: 6666 on Saturday May 28 2016 14:48:38 AEST PM
Hi Moodz
from post #14 did you ever buy one and pull it apart ?
be interested to see if the winding is similar to this.

(http://s33.postimg.org/ydx28s0nj/winding_direction.jpg)


(http://s33.postimg.org/bqe6f6633/coil_Small.jpg)



Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: moodz on Sunday May 29 2016 18:39:23 AEST PM
  
Hi Moodz
from post #14 did you ever buy one and pull it apart ?
be interested to see if the winding is similar to this.

(http://s33.postimg.org/ydx28s0nj/winding_direction.jpg)


(http://s33.postimg.org/bqe6f6633/coil_Small.jpg)



... no need to take apart ... your configuration is correct ... http://www.sinxray.com.au/producttest.html (http://www.sinxray.com.au/producttest.html)


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: 6666 on Sunday May 29 2016 21:35:54 AEST PM
Thanks for the reply, interesting to know, also your local courthouse usually has machine if you know somebody there  ::419::


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: GARY on Monday May 30 2016 10:40:44 AEST AM
Interesting and could call it a Double Flat wound mono although knowing very little about winding coils I assume top and bottom layers are required to produce the intended inductance figures & etc.

Gary..


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: WM6 on Tuesday May 31 2016 03:55:45 AEST AM
  
Interesting and could call it a Double Flat wound mono although knowing very little about winding coils I assume top and bottom layers are required to produce the intended inductance figures & etc.

Gary..

Assume that both layers are anti-phase wound and unshielded to help to maintain ground to coil (parasitic) capacitance (which appear with unshielded coil).

It could be easier and more symmetric wound using (double) speaker cable and connect one cable wire end to another cable wire start.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: 6666 on Tuesday May 31 2016 09:11:56 AEST AM
Quote
It could be easier and more symmetric wound using (double) speaker cable and connect one cable wire end to another cable wire start.

Good idea.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: 6666 on Sunday June 12 2016 16:38:12 AEST PM
Moodz do you have any info of the configuration of the sadie coil please ?


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: moodz on Sunday June 12 2016 20:27:10 AEST PM
  
Moodz do you have any info of the configuration of the sadie coil please ?

I have used one ... however I cannot say how it was constructed .... they are very sensitive for small targs.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: 6666 on Sunday June 12 2016 20:47:50 AEST PM
  
  
Moodz do you have any info of the configuration of the sadie coil please ?

I have used one ... however I cannot say how it was constructed .... they are very sensitive for small targs.

Thanks , yes they work very well.


Title: Re: EVO 15x17 review
Post by: Doug on Sunday June 12 2016 22:35:49 AEST PM
 Whats so funny is the some dude on 1/2 wits ::48::  "forum" ::620:: thinks that 666 is me!
doug ::419::