northwest More To CoilTek's 14" Mono Elite Camo Paint Than Meets The Eye?
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils  |  Topic: More To CoilTek's 14" Mono Elite Camo Paint Than Meets The Eye? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: More To CoilTek's 14" Mono Elite Camo Paint Than Meets The Eye?  (Read 1737 times)
1anSDC
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« on: Thursday July 2 2015 08:46:19 AEST AM »

I would like to pose this question to those with a greater knowledge than mine on detector coils and radio frequency!

Maybe there is a reason behind CoilTek putting all that effort into painting the top of their "new technology" coil. Is it possible that CoilTek have added carbon or some other non-metallic substance to the paint to act as a radio freq reflector and direct more energy downward?

The radio reflective paint would not be applied to some parts of the top of the coil. This would allow pinpointing the target held in a scoop and waved across the top of the coil.

The delay of the reflected signal would be minimal to the timing of the detector and would allow normal function. I have absolutely no idea of what putting a reflective coating on part of the top side of the coil would do to the shape of the coil's field. Obviously, (?) the shape of the top of the coil would effect the shape of the reflection.

Look forward to learning just how ridiculous this supposition of mine turns out to be  smile

Ian
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Doug
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« Reply #1 on: Thursday July 2 2015 09:22:10 AEST AM »

  
I would like to pose this question to those with a greater knowledge than mine on detector coils and radio frequency!

Maybe there is a reason behind CoilTek putting all that effort into painting the top of their "new technology" coil. Is it possible that CoilTek have added carbon or some other non-metallic substance to the paint to act as a radio freq reflector and direct more energy downward?

The radio reflective paint would not be applied to some parts of the top of the coil. This would allow pinpointing the target held in a scoop and waved across the top of the coil.

The delay of the reflected signal would be minimal to the timing of the detector and would allow normal function. I have absolutely no idea of what putting a reflective coating on part of the top side of the coil would do to the shape of the coil's field. Obviously, (?) the shape of the top of the coil would effect the shape of the reflection.

Look forward to learning just how ridiculous this supposition of mine turns out to be  smile

Ian



 I  don't know but here is some  info  on Y Shielding  EMR shielding paints
  
doug smile
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GARY
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« Reply #2 on: Thursday July 2 2015 16:24:57 AEST PM »

  
I would like to pose this question to those with a greater knowledge than mine on detector coils and radio frequency!

I have absolutely no idea of what putting a reflective coating on part of the top side of the coil would do to the shape of the coil's field. Obviously, (?) the shape of the top of the coil would effect the shape of the reflection.


Hopefully someone or IBGold who know more about what goes in to producing a coil can give you an answer as I am curious as well.

Gary..
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« Reply #3 on: Saturday July 4 2015 11:01:48 AEST AM »

  
Look forward to learning just how ridiculous this supposition of mine turns out to be  

Obviously with no other responses it is a ridiculous supposition.

All I can suggest is do a search on Geotech on Conductive Paint and Shielding and alike as there is a wealth of info on that site.




.


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IBGold
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« Reply #4 on: Saturday July 4 2015 17:22:12 AEST PM »

Hi Gary,

I do not know what they use as Trevor wont speak to me anymore but it is possible that there is an overcoat of a shielding medium painted on top of the coil I am testing something similar on an Eric Foster designed coil I will let you know the outcome when I return from the test trip in about three weeks cheers.

Regards, Ian. happy face
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Regards, Ian.
GARY
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« Reply #5 on: Saturday July 4 2015 20:21:04 AEST PM »

Thanks Ian.

Gary..
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greylourie
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« Reply #6 on: Saturday July 4 2015 21:12:19 AEST PM »

Would deflecting the magnetic wave wasted out the top of a coil help ? I thought most metal detectors put out plenty enough as it is..  Isn't the receiving more important ?

Ian ! People not talking to you ! You naughty fellow, revealing the secrets of coil building has got you into this situation. The secret guild of coil manufacturers issued a decree. 

I would have thought that if you want to direct more into the ground perhaps use a rectangular shape. I'm sure Authere described he had the impression of a more even pattern with such a coil, but I cant find where I read it. Something like the shape of the tx part in the GPZ14 coil.
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greylourie
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« Reply #7 on: Saturday July 4 2015 21:47:52 AEST PM »

When I first saw a photo of the new coil, I thought the camouflage was very striking and attractive. It reminded me of the water transfer film you can buy to coat various objects.

I don't think its going to make it work any better. Just adds to the cost that has to be recovered.
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Mechanic
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« Reply #8 on: Sunday July 5 2015 21:02:33 AEST PM »

Well, got to try out one of these coils today.
Sensitivity is the same top and bottom.
The coil is most sensitive 2" in from the edge.
Ran well, 1 little 0.13 bit and a plethora of shotty pellets.
Not one false signal from bumping anything, very stable coil.
Little bit weighty, but was reasonable with the bungee and could be scraped along the ground without problems.

Cheers Mick
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1anSDC
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« Reply #9 on: Sunday July 5 2015 21:37:35 AEST PM »

  
Would deflecting the magnetic wave wasted out the top of a coil help ? I thought most metal detectors put out plenty enough as it is..  Isn't the receiving more important ?

Ian ! People not talking to you ! You naughty fellow, revealing the secrets of coil building has got you into this situation. The secret guild of coil manufacturers issued a decree. 

I would have thought that if you want to direct more into the ground perhaps use a rectangular shape. I'm sure Authere described he had the impression of a more even pattern with such a coil, but I cant find where I read it. Something like the shape of the tx part in the GPZ14 coil.

Hey GL, stop laughing at me or I'll develop a complex  smile

At least you have taken the time and trouble, (along with others here) to answer a technical question with a technical answer, I appreciate that!

As for others not talking to me, maybe you should take another look as the view count is pretty high even if the posts mostly come from one interesting character. I dont think the thread has gone according to plan, buts its been an interesting learning experience about the vested interests in our hobby!

Ian
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« Reply #10 on: Sunday July 5 2015 21:50:34 AEST PM »

  
  
Would deflecting the magnetic wave wasted out the top of a coil help ? I thought most metal detectors put out plenty enough as it is..  Isn't the receiving more important ?

Ian ! People not talking to you ! You naughty fellow, revealing the secrets of coil building has got you into this situation. The secret guild of coil manufacturers issued a decree. 

I would have thought that if you want to direct more into the ground perhaps use a rectangular shape. I'm sure Authere described he had the impression of a more even pattern with such a coil, but I cant find where I read it. Something like the shape of the tx part in the GPZ14 coil.

Hey GL, stop laughing at me or I'll develop a complex  smile

At least you have taken the time and trouble, (along with others here) to answer a technical question with a technical answer, I appreciate that!

As for others not talking to me, maybe you should take another look as the view count is pretty high even if the posts mostly come from one interesting character. I dont think the thread has gone according to plan, buts its been an interesting learning experience about the vested interests in our hobby!

Ian
Hi Ian,

Probably the biggest reason you have not had technical replies to your post is that until a lot of us see something in the flesh, we are not willing to put our feet in our mouths! Well, I'm not anyway!
When I saw your post, my first thought was, no I highly doubt that there would be such a paint that could focus the magnetic field more downward. However, new innovations come out all the time, and just maybe they could have come up with some such magical paint. But after handing one myself and doing tests on it to test your theory, I came to the conclusion that this was not some magic magnetic field deflecting shield method(who knows, the shield could be magical in some way???). The sensitivity comes down to how the coil is wound. It would be the best Coiltek coil I have ever used without a doubt.

Cheers Mick
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1anSDC
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« Reply #11 on: Sunday July 5 2015 22:42:37 AEST PM »

Hi Mechanic, I agree with you 100% and doubt that a rf reflective paint is used on the topside coil cover, I was just interested to hear if it was feasible.

I also agree its a great coil and you have to wonder how they came up with it after all these years of making coils. I'm guessing now that Minelab are bringing out detectors with proprietary coils the future looks bleak for 3rd party coil manufacturers.

They now need to produce coils for use on older detectors, GPX, etc, that can close the gap on the GPZ7000. That will re-open the market for them as not everyone can afford the $10700 price tag of the 7000.

Ian
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Mechanic
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« Reply #12 on: Sunday July 5 2015 22:47:55 AEST PM »

HI Ian,

If they can make coils that are more sensitive to small stuff and more depth on bigger bits, then they are already there!
No yellow rings required ;) I can buy a lot of coils with the price difference! Also, if one chooses the appropriate coil for the ground depth he is working then there won't be much left for the 7.
Now, when are they going to make a coil that we can use in normal timing and get bugger all ground noise??

Cheers Mick
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GARY
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« Reply #13 on: Monday July 6 2015 00:43:48 AEST AM »

  
Now, when are they going to make a coil that we can use in normal timing and get bugger all ground noise??
Cheers Mick

You hit the nail on the head Mick.

If only we could tame down that deep seeking Normal timing over mineralised ground as this timing has not changed from its use in the GPs and GPXs. Well that is what I have observed  from my tests done on larger targets using Normal on my GP3000 and now on my GPX5000. On my modified SD2000 I could wind up the both Gain mods on Ch1 & Ch2 to 100% and match Normal on the GP and GPX however no hope then of running a mono. 

Actually for me the GP 3000 was the only detector that could tame down the Normal timing somewhat with a mono coil over Hot ground by running it in its Tracking mode set to FAST tracking and then using a very, very slow swing speed.

Gary..
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« Reply #14 on: Monday July 6 2015 04:08:12 AEST AM »

Hi Ian

I'm glad Mechanic got a chance to try out the coil and dispel any questions about sensitivity above and below the coil.

Don't sell your thoughts short, ever. Ideas, no matter how improbable can lead us to looking at and finding new ways of doing things. How many times have you heard an operator describe hearing and pulling up a target from a certain depth ? Only to discover that once out of the ground the detector can not even hear the darn thing at the same distance. Yup, ground conditions can actually help to get that extra bit of depth. So the conditions must be distorting or concentrating the EM in some way. Rain/moisture, mineralization, rocks..... they can all help, at times.

You never know, maybe sometime in the future, someone comes up with a plan to try do what you suggested. Maybe electronically, instead of a coating, some extra windings. Like in an old tv tube... what they call them ? Yoke windings ? .......... There I go, foot in mouth. Mech don't hit me !  LOL
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GARY
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« Reply #15 on: Monday July 6 2015 10:58:23 AEST AM »

With the talk about the 5c coin air test for the GPZ I wonder what this Elite coil might achieve doing the same test with a GPX.

Just to add my 5c's worth, my GPX with a NF12" round mono gets the 5c coin in Normal timing at 18" and in FG timing at 16".
EMI was present since I tested within city limits so without heading out bush this was the best result I could do.

Gary..

 
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« Reply #16 on: Wednesday October 21 2015 19:01:02 AEDT PM »

I see on another forum a fella says the new CT 14 elite does struggle to GB in some mineralised ground and the detector needs to be dumbed down a fair bit, however it can excel in others.

Has a pic showing tiny bits and its most impressive bit a very flat 0.4 gram at a depth of 320mm.

I am never been able to detect that size nugget at over 12" with my GPX.

Gary..

 
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils  |  Topic: More To CoilTek's 14" Mono Elite Camo Paint Than Meets The Eye? « previous next »
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