northwest Nugget tech coils
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: Nugget tech coils 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Nugget tech coils  (Read 6709 times)
Mechanic
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« Reply #20 on: Saturday March 12 2011 11:02:26 AEDT AM »

Hi Digger,

Scroll to the top of the page and on the left hand side click where it says you have  x messages. Then select  "new message", and put the members name in the "to" box, go from there!

Cheers Mick
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sd2200d digger
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« Reply #21 on: Saturday March 12 2011 11:10:34 AEDT AM »

Hi Mechanic,
 I got it, thanks very much. I have been trying to send PM's before by clicking onto the members name and was always told that I cannot just look at any profile.
Cheers,
sd2200d digger. happy face
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Alluvium
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« Reply #22 on: Saturday March 12 2011 13:37:14 AEDT PM »

  
Hi Alluvium, I know that the elliptical coils do not go deeper than the round ones. Let's say the 24"x14" Coiltek coil, would that make this coil 19" round, so would it go deeper than the 18" round Nugget Finder coil? I think that's the way I was looking at it.....
Thanks,
sd digger.

Hi Digger,
I saw you post yesterday, and decided to get over to the shed today and check out the measurements.

Yes that size would make a round coil approx 18 to 19”inches across, what has to be kept in mind is, although the winding around the edge is the same or similar circumference as the round coil, the 18” round will still go deeper than the elliptical one.

The elliptical coil is not symmetrical like a round one, and therefore has an unusual shaped field.  This elliptical field is affected by the ground mineralisation more so than the better shaped round field.

This is one of the reasons why an elliptical coil just does not have the same depth as a round coil.
I have seen on other forums over the years that people say they are similar in depth ability, this may be true to some extent until you get to greater depths, you will note most don’t say at what depths this has been observed.

It is like saying an 18”in coil is just as good as say a 20” at finding deep targets, we have found with our testing that eventually the 18”in will drop off responding to a target and the 20”in coil keeps on going.

Digger from where you say you mainly detect, plus the undergrowth, obstacles and scrub you encounter, buying a large coil may be a waste, as the times you would be able to use it, would more than likely be minimal.

They are made mainly for open ground, paddocks the vast areas in WA etc.

It is your choice mate; I hope this may guide you in the future.

Regards  Alluvium. 
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WM6
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« Reply #23 on: Saturday March 12 2011 14:41:06 AEDT PM »

  

Yes that size would make a round coil approx 18 to 19”inches across, what has to be kept in mind is, although the winding around the edge is the same or similar circumference as the round coil, the 18” round will still go deeper than the elliptical one.

The elliptical coil is not symmetrical like a round one, and therefore has an unusual shaped field.  This elliptical field is affected by the ground mineralisation more so than the better shaped round field.


Thanks Alluvium for explanation.

So we can conclude that only benefit of elliptical coil is that it can cover more surface in one sweep than round coil but no benefit in depth.
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Alluvium
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« Reply #24 on: Saturday March 12 2011 19:57:08 AEDT PM »

Hi WM6,

The other advantage is they can be used to poke in and around obstacles where you cannot get a round coil.

Cheers Alluvium.
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Alluvium
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« Reply #25 on: Thursday March 24 2011 17:47:01 AEDT PM »

Hi Doug,
Last weekend I was 1 of 4 people who witnessed some more amazing coil testing at the test patch.  This was videotaped to analyse at home in the lounge with plenty of time and no distractions.    On viewing the footage today, it is quite telling and somewhat exciting too.

The coils tested were the New Nugget tech 18”in x 12.5”in (Dingo) elliptical mono; this was compared with the NF 17” x 12”in elliptical mono (White SL version) and a later model Advantage mono of the same dimensions as the earlier NF.

A new 22”inch C/Tek round mono was fully tested to see its potential. This was up against an 18”in, NF Advantage mono coil.    3 other prototype NF coils were tested also.

I can talk about everything except the last 3 coils, I must say that Rowan does not rest on his laurels, he is always trying out new ideas and is not just pushing out the same old coils as others do, sure they try different sizes and shapes but are never thinking outside the square.

The new WA coil proved once more that is has poor responses on deeper gold of all sizes. In fact it was soundly beaten by the 2 smaller elliptical NF monos.
We have seen and tested 3 of these WA coils now and they all showed the same characteristics, so it is no good the manufacturers or distributors saying you must have a faulty coil.

Using the New Gold Magnet Dingo, a number of different size nuggets were tried with a GPX 4500 using our unique settings, they have proved themselves over and over to give the best responses on gold nuggets at this same test site.

The nuggets from 1oz and upwards were placed in the shallow hole at 14”inches deep, with no advanced or outstanding signals heard, in fact we were most unimpressed.

To really prove this drawback, a 31 ounce nugget was tried in the pipe at 14”inches, and when tested using the 4500 in Enhance, it gave a very poor result, in fact only a slight response.

Then to everybody’s amazement, when switched into Normal timing and swept over this same 31oz slug at 14”inches the Nugget Tech Dingo hardly increased in signal clarity or volume.

Yet when both N/Finder 17” x 12” elliptical monos were used with the same detector and settings over the same nuggets and depths, they were giving a lot better overall  responses on the 1oz, 42gm, 2 oz and 3 oz nuggets.

But when swinging the N/Finder coils over the 31oz at 14”inches deep, in both Enhance and Normal timings the contrast was stunning.  Especially when in Enhance, the responses nearly blew the speaker cone to bits.

When the 31oz went into the 2’ft deep pipe, the Dingo coil gave a very slight bouncy signal, one that you would walk right over the top of in the field, most likely being lost amongst the small ground noises we all get.

Once again the NF coils showed their worth on this deeper nugget, both giving stoppable results.
=============================================================

The new 22”inch round Coiltek mono coil was tried on the 4500 and 5000 over these same nuggets and depths, it was ok in Normal timing but poor in Enhance and Fine gold. 

On the big 31oz nugget at 2’ft and even 2’ft 6”inches deep, it gave good responses but only in Normal timing.

Cheers  Alluvium.   
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Mechanic
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« Reply #26 on: Thursday March 24 2011 18:13:53 AEDT PM »

Hi Alluvium,

Thanks for the results. Very interesting, yet to be expected. NF make very fine quality coils IMHO. Looking forward to the coils of the near future.

Cheers Mick
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andromedae71
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« Reply #27 on: Friday March 25 2011 12:43:13 AEDT PM »

Alluvium,

Could the 18" Round NF hear the 31 Oz nugget at 2 ft or 2'6"?
(Enhance, Fine Gold, or Normal Timings)

-Don
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Alluvium
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« Reply #28 on: Friday March 25 2011 19:02:14 AEDT PM »

  
Alluvium,

Could the 18" Round NF hear the 31 Oz nugget at 2 ft or 2'6"?
(Enhance, Fine Gold, or Normal Timings)

-Don  

Hi Don,

The 18"in Advantage NF round mono on both the 4500 and 5000, could get the 31oz nugget at 2'ft and 2'.6'ins in Normal timings.

When in Enhance timing both had a stoppable response only at the 2'ft deep hole.
Using the 5000 in Fine Gold Timing, there was no realistic (recognisable) signal at all, on either depth.

Regards  Alluvium.
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sd2200d digger
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« Reply #29 on: Friday March 25 2011 20:11:57 AEDT PM »

Hi Alluvium, that is really unusual because Minelab say that Fine Gold goes deeper than Enhance...???
This is very strange to me?
sd2200d digger. confused
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Mechanic
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« Reply #30 on: Friday March 25 2011 20:50:28 AEDT PM »

Hi Digger,

It does go deeper! on FINE GOLD ::38::

The problem with fine gold timing is it is designed for fine gold. It would have its subtractive samples very small and close together so targets with short time constants are easily detected with less ground noise, as the ground decay during this short period would not be much.

Cheers Mick
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sd2200d digger
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« Reply #31 on: Friday March 25 2011 21:09:24 AEDT PM »

Mechanic, JP says that Fine Gold will pick up big gold as well?
Anyway, Minelab have this chart.....
So does that mean if I was to use a NFA 17"x11" coil and use it in Fine Gold and search an area where I pick up small gold, so should I then go back with the same coil and use Enhance or Normal if I can to get the deeper gold if any are there?
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Doug
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« Reply #32 on: Friday March 25 2011 21:16:17 AEDT PM »

  
Hi Digger,

It does go deeper! on FINE GOLD ::38::

The problem with fine gold timing is it is designed for fine gold. It would have its subtractive samples very small and close together so targets with short time constants are easily detected with less ground noise, as the ground decay during this short period would not be much.

Cheers Mick

Fine gold may also use shorter pulses? If so this does not help energize targets with longer Tc's. Its also probably the reason why with enhance timing some larger, flatter nuggets are most easily detected when they are lying on the their side (shorter TC compared to when they are lying flat?) The other reason i suspect is because enhance and fine gold may use sophisticated filtering to remove the receive signal components from freq susceptible ground but in doing so also filter out some of the signal from  some larger nuggets.
doug happy face
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« Reply #33 on: Friday March 25 2011 21:19:34 AEDT PM »

  
Mechanic, JP says that Fine Gold will pick up big gold as well?
Anyway, Minelab have this chart.....
So does that mean if I was to use a NFA 17"x11" coil and use it in Fine Gold and search an area where I pick up small gold, so should I then go back with the same coil and use Enhance or Normal if I can to get the deeper gold if any are there?

Only if the ground is deep enough I would think? If the ground is hot and variable then normal timings might drive you mad!
doug happy face
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sd2200d digger
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« Reply #34 on: Friday March 25 2011 21:25:54 AEDT PM »

One example is that with the NFA 17"x11" I found a 1.3grammer at 10"-12" deep on Fine Gold but I only just heard it. The ground there is noisy even on Fine Gold timings, so does that mean it would have been heard easier on Enhance?
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Mechanic
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« Reply #35 on: Friday March 25 2011 21:50:10 AEDT PM »

Hi Digger and Doug,

Digger, enhance may have heard that nugget better, but then come the good old argument of the ground noise in the earlier timing, would you have recognised the signal as a target or been fooled into thinking that it  was a ground noise.

Doug, despite what has been said about enhance using a short 13us pulse(which it does not use on its own it is joined to another longer pulse) enhance actually uses more power than normal timings. I think that the shorter samples and less delay between them is what causes enhance to pick up nuggets on edge better as they would display a shorter TC in this position. I would be interested to see what the fine gold timing looks like on the tx side of things, even nicer to see the sample timings for both! One day maybe confused

Cheers Mick
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sd2200d digger
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« Reply #36 on: Friday March 25 2011 21:58:11 AEDT PM »

Mechanic, in regards to hearing that nugget I nearly walked away from it thinking it was ground noise.

On a total different subject, I think it is not fair on members to see 6 members online and 12 guests???
Doug, there are 331 members and there always seems to be more guests looking.
Lets make this like any othere forum where if you want to look you simply become a member, fair is fair don't you think?
regards,
sd2200d digger happy face
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Doug
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« Reply #37 on: Friday March 25 2011 23:16:13 AEDT PM »

  
Mechanic, in regards to hearing that nugget I nearly walked away from it thinking it was ground noise.

On a total different subject, I think it is not fair on members to see 6 members online and 12 guests???
Doug, there are 331 members and there always seems to be more guests looking.
Lets make this like any othere forum where if you want to look you simply become a member, fair is fair don't you think?
regards,
sd2200d digger happy face

Some guest are members, others are spammers trying to harvest email addresses and others are people just looking at the index.
doug happy face
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All posts on this forum are the personal views of the author and should  not necessarily be  interpreted as those of Admin.
When is 1halfgram4three (a proven forum hacker and  village idiot!) going to stop telling lies on his “forum”?
Doug
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« Reply #38 on: Friday March 25 2011 23:24:38 AEDT PM »

  
  
Mechanic, in regards to hearing that nugget I nearly walked away from it thinking it was ground noise.

On a total different subject, I think it is not fair on members to see 6 members online and 12 guests???
Doug, there are 331 members and there always seems to be more guests looking.
Lets make this like any othere forum where if you want to look you simply become a member, fair is fair don't you think?
regards,
sd2200d digger happy face

Some guest are members, others are spammers trying to harvest email addresses and others are people just looking at the index.
doug happy face

Guests may also be  members that have not logged into the forum.
doug happy face
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All posts on this forum are the personal views of the author and should  not necessarily be  interpreted as those of Admin.
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Doug
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« Reply #39 on: Friday March 25 2011 23:30:35 AEDT PM »

  
Hi Digger and Doug,

Digger, enhance may have heard that nugget better, but then come the good old argument of the ground noise in the earlier timing, would you have recognised the signal as a target or been fooled into thinking that it  was a ground noise.

Doug, despite what has been said about enhance using a short 13us pulse(which it does not use on its own it is joined to another longer pulse) enhance actually uses more power than normal timings. I think that the shorter samples and less delay between them is what causes enhance to pick up nuggets on edge better as they would display a shorter TC in this position. I would be interested to see what the fine gold timing looks like on the tx side of things, even nicer to see the sample timings for both! One day maybe confused

Cheers Mick

I agree with what you say and it seems that all the smooth class of timings are optimized for targets with shorter TC's which now is most nuggets.
But the price you pay is a big loss of depth on some targets with longer TC's like bigger, thicker, more conductive nuggets which is what has been seen in testing.
You can easily show the effect  with the infamous AL block where the detection range really falls off in enhance compared to normal timings.
doug happy face
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils (Moderator: Goldman)  |  Topic: Nugget tech coils « previous next »
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