northwest The need for big deep gold detectors.
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Wednesday April 24 2019 16:04:16 AEST PM
Home Help Login Register
News: Welcome to the Australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum founded in July 2010, an add free totally independent forum with over 70 boards and paid for and managed by the Admin.Topics: 9,245  Total forum Posts:46,000 Members:807. Total page views:12,263,130  Admin and  forum and domain name owner :marjen at optusnet.com.au. Guests can only see a limited number of boards at present and cannot see any hot links. Guests cannot post and never will be permitted too!Registration of new members must be approved by admin.
 All  original Photos and posts and  original materials displayed on this site are COPYRIGHTED and remain the property of the poster and the  Austalian electronicgoldprospectingforum.com. All messages on this forum express the personal views of the author and should not be interpreted as necessarily being in accord with those of the forum owner and neither the owner of this forum and its domain name nor SMF or the forum software developers or the forum host shall be held responsible for the content of any message. Admin reserves the right to remove any offensive or objectionable posts. No defamatory material or politics/religion or issues of race will be permitted.

australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils  |  Topic: The need for big deep gold detectors. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 42 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The need for big deep gold detectors.  (Read 25325 times)
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #100 on: Wednesday December 13 2017 22:41:02 AEDT PM »

Hi all,

has anyone one of the new elite coils for ML GP/SD/GPX series detectors?

I am particularly referring to the 18 inch elite variant:
See here:
  

Is anyone willing to do some measurements for me? I have to know, whether the coil makers already use the separate TX/RX coil technology. I just want to know, whether there is a large TX coil and a smaller RX coil inside coil housing.

The measurements on the coil plug pins:
TX part:
1. Inductance between pin 4 and 5
2. DC resistance between pin 4 and 5

RX part:
3. Inductance between pin 1 and 2
4. DC resistance between pin 1 and 2

5. DC resistance between pin 2 and 4:
either short circuit (zero ohms) or high impedance (not measureable resistance) or some resistance.

I have to know these values. These simple measurements will answer my question.
Thanks in advance. Any other new coil measuerement would do it either. It must be the new ones however.

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #101 on: Wednesday December 13 2017 22:52:28 AEDT PM »

Hi guys,

I have made several coil models and finished the coil simulation calculations.
It will take some time to show them in a nice Excel sheet.
(Not today. The weather here is nice and I'm heading to the nature for a walk with my girlfriend.)

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Muntari
invited members
Junior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 406


« Reply #102 on: Thursday December 14 2017 10:34:56 AEDT AM »

  
Hi guys,

I have made several coil models and finished the coil simulation calculations.
It will take some time to show them in a nice Excel sheet.
(Not today. The weather here is nice and I'm heading to the nature for a walk with my girlfriend.)



Hi Aziz, great to see you back!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

May I suggest if you have anything remotely commercially viable, that you you team up with someone who could take your idea to market.
Don't give a leg up to existing companies by sharing too much online.
There is a fine line between giving information freely and doing yourself out of a possible income, no-one should begrudge you that.
Throwing ideas out and discussing on a forum is how we all learn and can interact with others who are interested in the same thing but its an unfortunate fact that trolls monitor most forums and pick out ideas, nothing wrong with it except they don't acknowledge the author.
If you are not worried about commercial entities using your ideas, then no problems but you have had some great ideas in the past and it would be a shame if you did not benefit from at least one of them!


Cheers

Muntari
Logged

All posts submitted by myself to this forum are my opinion and are done so without prejudice
6666
QED users
Junior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 373


« Reply #103 on: Thursday December 14 2017 16:47:25 AEDT PM »

Hi Aziz have your coil simulation calculations shown a good size receiver coil for a 14 inch TX coil yet ?
Logged
IBGold
invited members
Junior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 479


IBGold at home.


« Reply #104 on: Thursday December 14 2017 18:07:32 AEDT PM »

  
Hi all,

has anyone one of the new elite coils for ML GP/SD/GPX series detectors?

I am particularly referring to the 18 inch elite variant:
See here:
  

Is anyone willing to do some measurements for me? I have to know, whether the coil makers already use the separate TX/RX coil technology. I just want to know, whether there is a large TX coil and a smaller RX coil inside coil housing.



The measurements on the coil plug pins:
TX part:
1. Inductance between pin 4 and 5
2. DC resistance between pin 4 and 5

RX part:
3. Inductance between pin 1 and 2
4. DC resistance between pin 1 and 2

5. DC resistance between pin 2 and 4:
either short circuit (zero ohms) or high impedance (not measureable resistance) or some resistance.

I have to know these values. These simple measurements will answer my question.
Thanks in advance. Any other new coil measuerement would do it either. It must be the new ones however.

Cheers,
Aziz

Hi Aziz, Yes I have the 18" Elite and a couple of Evo coils I will do the measurements for you over the week end as I am pre disposed tomorrow.

Regards, Ian.
Logged

Regards, Ian.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #105 on: Thursday December 14 2017 18:26:20 AEDT PM »

  
Hi Aziz, Yes I have the 18" Elite and a couple of Evo coils I will do the measurements for you over the week end as I am pre disposed tomorrow.

Regards, Ian.

Super Ian, I'm looking for the measurements results.
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #106 on: Thursday December 14 2017 18:56:54 AEDT PM »

  
Hi Aziz have your coil simulation calculations shown a good size receiver coil for a 14 inch TX coil yet ?

Hi 6666,

I haven't looked at the naked data yet. It is relative.
The smaller the RX coil size in relation to the TX coil size, the less EMI and ground noise will be picked up by the RX coil and the more gain you would require to compensate for the losses.

There are two option considerations for the gain compensation:
- compensation for the same amount of EMI noise induction
- compensation for the same amount of ground noise induction
same amount means comparable to a specific mono coil size.

I think the latter one is most important (ground noise). Think of the following situation. You have a 14 " mono coil and the ground is heavy mineralized so you have to setup up the detectors gain down to operate on this ground. But you want a greater depth. So a 18"+ TX and 14" RX coil configuration becomes interesting. The RX coil will pick up the same amount of EMI noise (size and inductance has not been changed). But the larger 18"+ TX coil will produce less ground noise induction on the 14" RX coil. The 14" inch RX can have more gain now. This gain compensation will give us the depth improvement. If you don't increase gain, you will have less ground noise (detector runs quieter). You have to choose: either more detection depth or more quiet with some detection depth loss.
The interesting question is, is there enough head room for improvements.
Answer: Yes!
Huch much? To be shown soon.

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #107 on: Thursday December 14 2017 19:12:06 AEDT PM »

Hi guys,

some comments to my last post.

The detection depth improvement is one aspect only. Not the most important one however.

The most improvements come from other effects.
The RX coil focusses to almost perpendicular magnetic fields penetrating the hot ground. Shallow and horizontal affected ground noise won't be picked up by the RX. BTW, these magnetic fields are causing the most ground noises.

A distinct, clear and sharp detection signal for deep targets. You can hear the big deep gold signal better. No more fake signals for the big deep gold.

These are the most important benefits. You will find more gold with it. Forget the depth improvement. It is relative. But you get it too.

Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #108 on: Thursday December 14 2017 19:33:04 AEDT PM »

  

...
If you are not worried about commercial entities using your ideas, then no problems but you have had some great ideas in the past and it would be a shame if you did not benefit from at least one of them!

Cheers
Muntari

Hi Muntari,

great to see you again.

I'm not worried about the exploitation of my ideas by others. But they must not be patented!
(BTW, someone in Oz owes me a free cold beer only!)

-->> "Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind."
I want more gold for you all.
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
sd220d Digger
invited members
Newbie
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 161


« Reply #109 on: Thursday December 14 2017 19:38:22 AEDT PM »

  
Hi guys,

some comments to my last post.

The detection depth improvement is one aspect only. Not the most important one however.

The most improvements come from other effects.
The RX coil focusses to almost perpendicular magnetic fields penetrating the hot ground. Shallow and horizontal affected ground noise won't be picked up by the RX. BTW, these magnetic fields are causing the most ground noises.

A distinct, clear and sharp detection signal for deep targets. You can hear the big deep gold signal better. No more fake signals for the big deep gold.

These are the most important benefits. You will find more gold with it. Forget the depth improvement. It is relative. But you get it too.

Aziz

You're 100% right there Aziz.
It's always been the ground minerals noise masking the Gold signals.
There is an area that I detect that masks gold that is only 3-6 inches deep. And another area that I cannot detect at all because of these ground minerals and or magnetic fields.

Looking forward to seeing you achieve this.
It's a pity that you don't live in Australia.


Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #110 on: Thursday December 14 2017 20:15:22 AEDT PM »

  

You're 100% right there Aziz.
It's always been the ground minerals noise masking the Gold signals.
There is an area that I detect that masks gold that is only 3-6 inches deep. And another area that I cannot detect at all because of these ground minerals and or magnetic fields.

Looking forward to seeing you achieve this.
It's a pity that you don't live in Australia.


Hi Digger,

yes, there is still lots of gold in the ground. I will open up the gold fields again. With the separate TX/RX coil design. It is the only way to do it. And it is familiar with the ground loop principle.
More detection depth can be achieved with more TX coil current in conjunction with the RX gain compensation. But we are limitted to RX gain compensation at the moment (what the detector allows for gain compensation or with more RX coil windings in the coil).

Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
authere
invited members
Junior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 348


« Reply #111 on: Thursday December 14 2017 23:04:57 AEDT PM »

Hi Aziz,

I measured my 18" Elite mono coil for you, saved you some work Ian, and it measured as a mono coil would with .45ohms and 280uH , it doesn't have a second coil

Cheers,Ron
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #112 on: Friday December 15 2017 17:15:02 AEDT PM »

  
Hi Aziz,

I measured my 18" Elite mono coil for you, saved you some work Ian, and it measured as a mono coil would with .45ohms and 280uH , it doesn't have a second coil

Cheers,Ron

Thanks Ron,

but I want to see each measured values by myself.
I also need the inductance between pin 2 and 4 (measurement #6).

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #113 on: Friday December 15 2017 17:48:55 AEDT PM »

Hi all,

the Excel table is getting large and the coil simulation results will take more time. Publishing date will be very likely next week. I have less free time during the week end.

But don't be disappointed by the naked values comparisons. The separate TX/RX coil will get you more gold, where the equivalent sized mono coil fails its operation. It simply increases the signal-to-noise (SNR) ratio for the big deep gold on heavy mineralized grounds.

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #114 on: Friday December 15 2017 19:12:21 AEDT PM »

  
BW has tried using a higher voltages on the QED but they did not result in any improvement  in detection depth.All they achieved was a larger battery drain.
doug

I remembered this statement in this thread.

The reason why it hasn't probably worked is because, more power causes more ground noise.

The detection depth will be improved by the separate (large) TX/ (smaller) RX coil design and the larger battery drain won't be wasted power.

Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #115 on: Saturday December 16 2017 07:53:44 AEDT AM »

Hi guys,

you won't believe me. scared
This will be a major breakthrough in coil technology and electronic gold prospecting.
I will open up all the gold fields again.
But you will hate me for digging deep holes.

I have to figure out the ground noise response reduction factor for the separate TX/RX coils. A good calculated approximation would be also ok.
But we can also measure them easily for correct factors. By simply building the coils and making some measurements above the hot ground.

BTW, I have found another benefit. The moving coil problem on hot ground reduces also. This will reduce more ground noise of course.
What's a moving coil problem?
The hot ground gets magnetized below the TX coil. If you move the coil during the sampling time (usually done by sweeping the coil), you induce a voltage in the RX coil. The smaller RX coil will see small magnetic field changes by the movement. Compared to the larger TX when used as RX, will induce a much larger ground response of course (big magnetic field change).
happy face

We are changing tomorrows PI technology right now!

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
sd220d Digger
invited members
Newbie
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 161


« Reply #116 on: Saturday December 16 2017 13:38:57 AEDT PM »

  
Hi guys,

you won't believe me. scared
This will be a major breakthrough in coil technology and electronic gold prospecting.
I will open up all the gold fields again.
But you will hate me for digging deep holes.

I have to figure out the ground noise response reduction factor for the separate TX/RX coils. A good calculated approximation would be also ok.
But we can also measure them easily for correct factors. By simply building the coils and making some measurements above the hot ground.

BTW, I have found another benefit. The moving coil problem on hot ground reduces also. This will reduce more ground noise of course.
What's a moving coil problem?
The hot ground gets magnetized below the TX coil. If you move the coil during the sampling time (usually done by sweeping the coil), you induce a voltage in the RX coil. The smaller RX coil will see small magnetic field changes by the movement. Compared to the larger TX when used as RX, will induce a much larger ground response of course (big magnetic field change).
happy face

We are changing tomorrows PI technology right now!

Cheers,
Aziz

That's great news Aziz.

Now, all you need to do is build them and send me a test coil.

Or you can come and live in Australia and do this here with IB GOLD and Bugwhiskers.  excited
Logged
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #117 on: Saturday December 16 2017 22:17:55 AEDT PM »

Hi all,

a new detector, which is specially designed for the new concentric co-planar large TX/small RX coil design will benefit much more.
A two channel PI detector, which is processing both coils (large TX and small RX) in the off-time. A kind of discrimination of a shallow buried target or deep target can be made.
During the TX coil switch-off phase and constant high voltage limitting the TX coil voltage, the RX coil can sense the coil coupling factor k, which is a grade of mineralization level under the coils, which then can be used for ground balance (GB) to minimize the target signal loss during the GB.
Of course, the information during TX-on phase can be exploited in the RX coil too.

I see a lot of benefits.

And it seems, that I have a long-term PI project on TX/RX coils soon.
Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
Aziz
invited members
Supreme Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3977



« Reply #118 on: Sunday December 17 2017 00:28:20 AEDT AM »

Hi all,

this is the road map for the very interesting project:

1. Understanding the principle

2. Coil comparison charts based on coil simulation results

3. Realising the technology on the QED detector (without any modifications)
3.1 Designing a coil with the wire you wind the coil (using my coil software)
3.2 Designing & building the coil adapter box
3.3 Field test

4. Realising the technology on the current SD/GP/GPX detectors  (without any modifications)
4.1 Designing a coil with the wire you wind the coil (using my coil software)
4.2 Designing & building  the coil adapter box
4.3 Field test

5. Future detector designs & ideas


This thread is becoming a large thread. You will find nowhere else the leading edge of coil technolgy.
You may rise questions and objections any time. It's welcome.
I also would need your contribution by supporting me with infos, measurements and tests.
If this isn't going to happen, I will cut-off my contribution. It's your choice. Fair enough?

Cheers,
Aziz
Logged

Free science, knowledge and inventions to the mankind.
sd220d Digger
invited members
Newbie
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 161


« Reply #119 on: Sunday December 17 2017 00:59:05 AEDT AM »

  
Hi all,

this is the road map for the very interesting project:

1. Understanding the principle

2. Coil comparison charts based on coil simulation results

3. Realising the technology on the QED detector (without any modifications)
3.1 Designing a coil with the wire you wind the coil (using my coil software)
3.2 Designing & building the coil adapter box
3.3 Field test

4. Realising the technology on the current SD/GP/GPX detectors  (without any modifications)
4.1 Designing a coil with the wire you wind the coil (using my coil software)
4.2 Designing & building  the coil adapter box
4.3 Field test

5. Future detector designs & ideas


This thread is becoming a large thread. You will find nowhere else the leading edge of coil technolgy.
You may rise questions and objections any time. It's welcome.
I also would need your contribution by supporting me with infos, measurements and tests.
If this isn't going to happen, I will cut-off my contribution. It's your choice. Fair enough?

Cheers,
Aziz

Hi Aziz,
I'm no tech wiz so I cannot contribute to this coil idea.
As much as I'd like to.

Maybe IB GOLD (Ian)  can make this coil for me to test?  happy face
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 42 Go Up Print 
australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  Detector Technology and Electronics and new detectors  |  Detector Coils  |  Topic: The need for big deep gold detectors. « previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder

BisdakworldClassic design by JV PACO-IN
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
gold