Myths - Associated with Gold Detection & Detectors

[Huego]

     
      Here's a topic with lots of latitude & controversy! ANY MYTHS will do!

MYTHS can be created, perpetuated & remain uncorrected by those who do KNOW better & CAN say so (but don't).

Some myths are CREATED for COMMERCIAL reasons, others out of ignorance or simply carelessness. Others are attempts to brag!

We have recently heard of ....... "1 oz nuggets being detected at 3 foot with a 4500.?

MYTH or wishful thinking? (sawmill says it happens ie it is NO myth!)


WHAT OTHER MYTHS or Brags have your heard? ........ and from what source?

Big, small, deep or shallow, in water sand or snow, in Aust US or Europe ..... ML or non ML ........ anything!

Huego

[sawmill]

 Huego

 Before you start posting drivel ,you may want to check
your facts.

 I said under perfect conditions,with a certain 4500 that
it is possible,and has been done to detect a one ounce plus
size nugget at 3 feet. I did not say it was the norm ,or applied
to all 4500 machines.

[Huego]

 Huego

 Before you start posting drivel ,you may want to check
your facts.

 I said under perfect conditions,with a certain 4500 that
it is possible,and has been done to detect a one ounce plus
size nugget at 3 feet. I did not say it was the norm ,or applied
to all 4500 machines.

Thnaks for your, lets call it "correction". OK, I checked my facts (what I wrote)
However I can not see the "drivel" here or impending frankly!  Any clarification of what others say (from that sayer) is welcome even if trivial.

ONE MYTH QUALIFIED by sawmill: 

Under

Perfect conditions (in USA) using .....
Certain (selected?) 4500s it may be  ......
Possible (but improbable?) ...... to detect a 1 oz nugget at 3 feet       ............. CLARIFIED    

Did I mention a "norm"?  Nope!

I think we are talking extremes, UNLIKELY or IMPROBABLE EVENTS or CLAIMS when talking about "MYTHS" not the "norms"?

Huego 

[sawmill]

 Huego

 Your feeble attempt at humor,just shows your contempt ,and
you are not fooling anyone.

 It is no myth,that our 4500 detected several deep nuggets
at two to three feet ,before we sent it in on the recall. This
is the reason I no longer own ML detectors. Before the recall
our 4500 was like no other detector we had used. After Las Vegas
ML got done with it,it was junk.

 The new replacement 4500 ,couldn't begin to work like the
original did. The worst mistake I ever made was to send the
original in for the recall.

 Of course since you have never used a 4500 ,you wouldn't
know anything about what I am saying. If the 4500 had of
came back running as it did at first,I would still be using ML
detectors.

 I have no reason to talk up or make a sales pitch for ML,as
I no longer use them,or have intentions to buy another. But
I have no intentions to sit by ,and read crap posted by some
one ,that is only speculation ,and not say anything. The facts
are that,contrary to myths purported to be science,and sound
theories ,stuff does happen.

 Reading an opinion by someone that has never used a 4500
or actually dug a nugget found by one , doesn't impress me.
Calling people liars and trashing them,about something you don't
really have knowledge of only makes you look the fool.

[Huego]

 Huego

 Your feeble attempt at humor,just shows your contempt ,and
you are not fooling anyone.

 It is no myth,that our 4500 detected several deep nuggets
at two to three feet ,before we sent it in on the recall. This
is the reason I no longer own ML detectors. Before the recall
our 4500 was like no other detector we had used. After Las Vegas
ML got done with it,it was junk.

 The new replacement 4500 ,couldn't begin to work like the
original did. The worst mistake I ever made was to send the
original in for the recall.

 Of course since you have never used a 4500 ,you wouldn't
know anything about what I am saying. If the 4500 had of
came back running as it did at first,I would still be using ML
detectors.

 I have no reason to talk up or make a sales pitch for ML,as
I no longer use them,or have intentions to buy another. But
I have no intentions to sit by ,and read crap posted by some
one ,that is only speculation ,and not say anything. The facts
are that,contrary to myths purported to be science,and sound
theories ,stuff does happen.

 Reading an opinion by someone that has never used a 4500
or actually dug a nugget found by one , doesn't impress me.
Calling people liars and trashing them,about something you don't
really have knowledge of only makes you look the fool.

Sawmill, I don’t know what you are crapping on about! Maybe you need a lydown or some medical care. NO ONE (not me) accused you of anything! Did I call you a liar?  Certainly not so you are prone to "dreaming" - seeing what is not there. I never gave my own opinion on how deep a 4500 can find a nugget as I am dependant on others, those I trust for such opinion. I have never owned or used one - I have never claimed to use any GPX but I sure enjoy looking at what ML & others say about them coz I get lots to comment about. So do others, like JP and your mate Chris. I can read what others including what ML report (eg in annual reports) and pull the real substance from it.  I don’t belong to Climate Change groups or your Heartland but I sure comment when I wish!  

As for my experience its all with a 2200, I don’t have or wish to have a "GPX experience" to KNOW or make COMMENT or make HUMOUR from.  
I have enough basis for that from other interests.  I certainly don’t need experience to comment on anything anyone says on any forum, about truth, about lies or MYTHS.
I am simply free to say it my way coz like most here we are just commentators exchanging our views; some may be based on their own, or others experience!

Huego

PS: I started this topic so OTHERS can talk about MYTHS associated with detectors or detecting. Some may be true, some not! I don't care as I won't be the judge, but I may make a comment.

[Gary]

The only way to get an accurate depth measurement of a nugget's true depth would be to dig and locate it still resting in situ and therefore measure an exact distance from the top of the nugget to ground level. I have only ever been able to located a nugget once as it rested in-ground.

[Huego]

Looks like I have to keep fishing & finding others claimed MYTHS or TRUTHS ......

Here is one from Kon (management) on 4 runner after talking about Nokta detector performance ... he brings up the GOLD STANDARD again.... a GPX- 4500!
Again, I am NOT saying this is TRUTH or MYTH, it could be one or the other! (Thats why stds & testing are important.) I prefer discussion rational discussion, not just attacks on the poster.. 

            http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t8070-new-detector

.... "If my memory doesn't fail me,I clearly remembered a silver threepence picked up by the 4500 and new Goldstalker series 18.5 x 12 elliptical mono during testing,at a measured depth of 75cm and is not a threepence a little smaller in diameter than the current 5 cent coin? ..."

 

[Doug]

Looks like I have to keep fishing & finding others claimed MYTHS or TRUTHS ......

Here is one from Kon (management) on 4 runner after talking about Nokta detector performance ... he brings up the GOLD STANDARD again.... a GPX- 4500!
Again, I am NOT saying this is TRUTH or MYTH, it could be one or the other! (Thats why stds & testing are important.) I prefer discussion rational discussion, not just attacks on the poster..  

            http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t8070-new-detector

.... "If my memory doesn't fail me,I clearly remembered a silver threepence picked up by the 4500 and new Goldstalker series 18.5 x 12 elliptical mono during testing,at a measured depth of 75cm and is not a threepence a little smaller in diameter than the current 5 cent coin? ..."

 

Using coins as std targets  is only valid if they have the same conductivity ,surface area and thickness. The composition of coins has changed as the price of silver and copper has gone up. The ideal std test targets would be perhaps be pure gold  coins (or small ingots?) made from 9999 gold. Yes i  think a silver threepence maybe smaller in diam than the 5 cent coin. The other thing to remember is that the detection depth may depend on the GB setting ie if the coin (or any conductive object for that matter) has a TC near to the TC of the ground (GB position) then its detection range may be diminished or may even become  close to zero!
I am very skeptical of the threepence result although i don't think any of the test team here have done it! I think a few tests have been done with 20 cent coins, but I can't recall the results.
doug

[WM6]

  After Las Vegas
ML got done with it,it was junk.

 

Hi Sawmill

do you know which year those "Las Vegas" happen?

Or better by which serial number ended series of better quality? Thanks.

[geof_junk]

Points to consider with a silver 3d. Yes it is smaller than a 5c but has a better conductivity than pure gold. The silver will leach into the soil and give a halo effect. The coin was not found in our bad gold field minerals. Is this enough to allow detection at that depth.

[Doug]

I now know that a 4500 that had  a serial number in the recall range was tested.Later 4500's apart from being a little quieter  gave fairly similar test results to those in the recall range. So based on this i see any inference that those 4500's in the recall range were dramatically better in depth capability than later one's has no basis in fact!
doug

[sawmill]

 Doug
 I don't know who your source is,but your information is
not right. Our original 4500 ran  perfect,and was the smoothest
running ML we have ever had. We only sent it back because of
the recall. This was noticed by all of the experienced ,pre recall
owners too.

 Our new replacement high serial number 4500 was very noisy
and never would run half as good as the original.

 Also was the purported 4500 that you claim was tested ,tested
before being molested by ML,or after? Could you provide video of
the test,and proof of the serial number? Also can you prove that it
was an unmolested machine. This seems to be the standard
requirement in your world.

[Huego]

Well Doug,

Maybe this brings up another MYTH that some detectors (same model etc) are STUDs while others are WIMPs!  

I wonder what the difference is in performance between say 4500 serial numbers?. (The same was said of the SD2200)

Are we talking 1% or 5% or 10% ?????

There were rumours that ML dealers were unpacking detectors to "test them" before sale. Some were Dead on Arrival ie a 100% difference from others!

Another MYTH was that some dealers selected the "studs" (best performers) for themselves, mates or for selected customers.

MYTH or MYRTH, who am I to say!

Huego

[Huego]

Points to consider with a silver 3d. Yes it is smaller than a 5c but has a better conductivity than pure gold. The silver will leach into the soil and give a halo effect. The coin was not found in our bad gold field minerals. Is this enough to allow detection at that depth.

Geoff,

yes, I would agree that the 90% silver in an old 3d would give it high conductivity, maybe better that pure gold or even some nuggets the same size or rough shape. BUT when you say "the silver will leach (from the coin) into the soil and give a halo effect" well, I respecfully suggest that is a MYTH. Silver is pretty inert, and in my opinion, would not leach in a few decades into the soil. If you think it would, how could it do that?

I can imagine halo effects with ironstone, manganese or copper sulphide containing nugggets but do have my doubts with silver coins.

Perhaps the halo effect around any buried coin could be from other effects.

[Huego]

OK Doug,

Here is another MYTH associated with a certain well-known detector brand.
Some metal detectors are used as reward for suitable ML mouths on forums or on tour for certain, lets say, positive comments & spin, that help with sales, loosening purse strings etc …….. such commentary could be:

•   Big Nugget finds
•   Fictitious performance claims
•   Gold GOLF GOLD!
•   New & forthcoming ML models

Anyone else heard of this myth? Its a strong one in certain circles!!

Or the reward of an invite to "swing the stick with JP" when they visit Oz after …….. ?
Denig … denigr … denigra …. (can’t seemta get it out) denigrating or abusive comments on Dougs forum!
Banded and rung out, the banded bros are ......  _*

Huego  

All good fodder for the stats fairy & lurkers (guests, like sawmill & flounders)

[1Halfgram4three]

Some metal detectors are used as reward for suitable ML mouths on forums or on tour for certain, lets say, positive comments & spin, that help with sales, loosening purse strings etc

Well I would say that this is a common practice with regards to any bussiness large or small, something called kickbacks, bribes,prizes.
I know first hand (as my brother in law was a mine manger) the bottles of rum (like 5litres one's with their own stand worth hundreds),dinners,tickets all just given to him. So I can't see why minelab wouldn't chuck a few goddies to story spinner's.

[UrbanFox]

Here is another MYTH associated with a certain well-known detector brand.
Some metal detectors are used as reward for suitable ML mouths on forums or on tour for certain, lets say, positive comments & spin, that help with sales, loosening purse strings etc …….. such commentary could be:

•   Big Nugget finds
•   Fictitious performance claims
•   Gold GOLF GOLD!
•   New & forthcoming ML models

Anyone else heard of this myth? Its a strong one in certain circles!!

Or the reward of an invite to "swing the stick with JP" when they visit Oz after …….. ?
Denig … denigr … denigra …. (can’t seemta get it out) denigrating or abusive comments on Dougs forum!
Banded and rung out, the banded bros are ......  _*

Huego  

All good fodder for the stats fairy & lurkers (guests, like sawmill & flounders)

I am slowly looking around for a second hand GPX4500. What would you recommend from another manufacturer that you consider has better performance and what are the performance capabilities that make it better?

[Doug]

Here is another MYTH associated with a certain well-known detector brand.
Some metal detectors are used as reward for suitable ML mouths on forums or on tour for certain, lets say, positive comments & spin, that help with sales, loosening purse strings etc …….. such commentary could be:

•   Big Nugget finds
•   Fictitious performance claims
•   Gold GOLF GOLD!
•   New & forthcoming ML models

Anyone else heard of this myth? Its a strong one in certain circles!!

Or the reward of an invite to "swing the stick with JP" when they visit Oz after …….. ?
Denig … denigr … denigra …. (can’t seemta get it out) denigrating or abusive comments on Dougs forum!
Banded and rung out, the banded bros are ......  _*

Huego  

All good fodder for the stats fairy & lurkers (guests, like sawmill & flounders)

I am slowly looking around for a second hand GPX4500. What would you recommend from another manufacturer that you consider has better performance and what are the performance capabilities that make it better?

It depends on what you mean by "better performance" and also if other factors such as price, waterproof etc should be considered.
doug

[Alluvium]

Hi Foxy,

Crikey that's a loaded question.
How long did it take you to think up that??   

This will be the year of big changes, mark my words.

It will benefit most prospectors, (But maybe not some Flounders we know).   

The new song as we detect will be, (Oh when the gold, keeps rollin in. When the gold keeps rollin in.
I want to be in the goldfields. When the gold keeps rolling in!!

Pity you won't be one of the first to get these little beauties.   

[UrbanFox]

Crikey that's a loaded question.
How long did it take you to think up that??  

What do you see as being the issue with it? I don't see my question being as nebulous as your answer.

Are you not capable of describing a few of the features or capabilities of the various machines that you are familiar with to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of what you consider to be state-of-the-art?

This will be the year of big changes, mark my words.

It will benefit most prospectors, (But maybe not some Flounders we know).  

I am a person who relies on my tactile sense. Also, if I can hit it with a hammer and it gives off the right sound I know it really is there in front of me.

The new song as we detect will be, (Oh when the gold, keeps rollin in. When the gold keeps rollin in.
I want to be in the goldfields. When the gold keeps rolling in!!

Maybe you should be singing...

Oh, if it ever gets off the ground,
If it ever gets off the ground,
I would like to be in that number,
If it ever gets off the ground.

Pity you won't be one of the first to get these little beauties.  

Perhaps I will not be considering I might not be willing to wait that long as I would like to have a replacement detector while I can still walk around. No use to me in 10 years time as I could be in a wheel chair by then. Considering impecuniosity is not a problem, I will acquire that which takes my fancy from what is available to me now. Would you like to give me your valued input?