What do Detectorists Like & Want from Prospecting?

[Huego]

What Do Detectorists Like & Want from Prospecting as a Hobby?

Do you like (or don't like) ........

•   Researching gold history, maps, tales & local knowledge for new gold areas to work?
•   Finding good GOLD for the hope of WEALTH?
•   Challenge, Joy, frustration & occasional rewards just looking for this rare metal
•   Competition & Show – showing what you find, finding more than before or more than mates
•   Whinge or celebrate - drink beer when they return home or to camp (social)
•   Learn, laugh & exchange stories on forums?
•   Find new gadgets to make detecting safer, more comfortable, more stylish (one figure comes to mind!)
•   Learn eg how to find & use their tools better?
•   Dream about what could be ie
•   Better DETECTORS (so they can stay in FRONT, find gold missed by those before & those who can’t afford what they can!)
•   Better COILS (tuneable, lighter, cheaper, deeper seekers, smaller, quieter)

What do you think?

Or for bloody Huego to just SHUT the F UP!

 

[Doug]

What Do Detectorists Like & Want from Prospecting as a Hobby?

Do you like (or don't like) ........

•   Researching gold history, maps, tales & local knowledge for new gold areas to work?
•   Finding good GOLD for the hope of WEALTH?
•   Challenge, Joy, frustration & occasional rewards just looking for this rare metal
•   Competition & Show – showing what you find, finding more than before or more than mates
•   Whinge or celebrate - drink beer when they return home or to camp (social)
•   Learn, laugh & exchange stories on forums?
•   Find new gadgets to make detecting safer, more comfortable, more stylish (one figure comes to mind!)
•   Learn eg how to find & use their tools better?
•   Dream about what could be ie
•   Better DETECTORS (so they can stay in FRONT, find gold missed by those before & those who can’t afford what they can!)
•   Better COILS (tuneable, lighter, cheaper, deeper seekers, smaller, quieter)

What do you think?

Or for bloody Huego to just SHUT the F UP!

 

Some want "better" coils I see!  But the problem with this is:what can be done with coils to make them "better" is  limited and dictated to by the fact that ML detectors require very specific and narrow coil parameters! ie low resistance, narrow range of inductance and low Q and over damping! Better coils need a new Pi method, not the tired old circa 1995 ML method!
However I have used some home made coils that are far better than anything commercial! The problem with these coils is that they are much heavier and because of very different winding methods are very labor intensive in both R@D and making.So a  commercial equivalent would be very much more expensive!Would customers be prepared to pay  perhaps 3-4x more for such a coil?
doug

[Huego]

Somewant "better" coils I see! But the problem with this is: what can be done with coils to make them "better" is  limited and dictated to by the fact that ML detectors require very specific and narrow coil parameters! IE low resistance, narrow range of inductance and low Q and over damping! Better coils need a new Pi method, not the tired old circa 1995 ML method!

However I have used some home made coils that are far better than anything commercial! The problem with these coils is that they are much heavier and because of very different winding methods are very labor intensive in both R@D and making. So a commercial equivalent would be very much more expensive!
Would customers be prepared to pay  perhaps 3-4x more for such a coil?
doug

Doug,

I believe there would be many hobby & prof. prospectors who WOULD indeed pay a LOT more for coils IF it was shown (mostly by their mates finds) that they would "punch deeper" or "run quieter" ....... ie OFFER MORE virgin ground to FIND MORE GOLD!  They like to save $ where they can, BUT if they NEED to outlay, they will!

Further I believe a big motivator in (Hobby) Prospecting is competition with fellow prospectors  ie  NEED (or GREED) ......
an intense NEED to find it before others do with their better COILs or DETECTORS or whatever!  The fear is "when its gone its gone!" so "get it while you can" and "I must not miss out" etc.

              (  NEED & GREED are probably very primal urges  ......  you don't get more primal than a gold-hungry propsector!   )

When this FEVER (need & greed) takes hold, such competition are no longer 'our mates' (except in common misery or adversity, eg Eureka)!  

Notice Doug, I am concentrating only on the human element not the technology.

Huego  

[Doug]

Somewant "better" coils I see! But the problem with this is: what can be done with coils to make them "better" is  limited and dictated to by the fact that ML detectors require very specific and narrow coil parameters! IE low resistance, narrow range of inductance and low Q and over damping! Better coils need a new Pi method, not the tired old circa 1995 ML method!

However I have used some home made coils that are far better than anything commercial! The problem with these coils is that they are much heavier and because of very different winding methods are very labor intensive in both R@D and making. So a commercial equivalent would be very much more expensive!
Would customers be prepared to pay  perhaps 3-4x more for such a coil?
doug

Doug,

I believe there would be many hobby & prof. prospectors who WOULD indeed pay a LOT more for coils IF it was shown (mostly by their mates finds) that they would "punch deeper" or "run quieter" ....... ie OFFER MORE virgin ground to FIND MORE GOLD!  They like to save $ where they can, BUT if they NEED to outlay, they will!

Further I believe a big motivator in (Hobby) Prospecting is competition with fellow prospectors  ie  NEED (or GREED) ......
an intense NEED to find it before others do with their better COILs or DETECTORS or whatever!  The fear is "when its gone its gone!" so "get it while you can" and "I must not miss out" etc.

              (  NEED & GREED are probably very primal urges  ......  you don't get more primal than a gold-hungry propsector!   )

When this FEVER (need & greed) takes hold, such competition are no longer 'our mates' (except in common misery or adversity, eg Eureka)!  

Notice Doug, I am concentrating only on the human element not the technology.

Huego  

Even if prospectors were prepared to pay 3-4X more for a coil  would any manufacturer be prepared to take this risk? (return on investment/profit margin?)
doug

[Huego]

A few more thoughts on the NEED & GREED associated with GOLD FEVER!

Our most primal urges include jealousy, revenge, greed, submission, and gluttony. The first 3 are common in gold fields (old & new)

Perhaps feeling greed is not bad per se.  Uncontrolled greed is when this problem leads to other serious events, even crimes.  
Controlled greed is "not bad at all, even good because its a powerful force" held in check thus making the person stonger! (Asian viewpoint)
Control requires some self understanding, discipline & patience. Discipline is like a muscle, needing excercise to strengthen.
Pain can teach tolerance & patience too, but if you don’t learn, it often returns giving you another chance to learn.  

Think I might become a preacher!    Mick, where's that soap box?

Huego  

[Huego]

Even if prospectors were prepared to pay 3-4X more for a coil, would any manufacturer be prepared to take this risk? (return on investment/profit margin?)
doug

That's a lot of money for a "disc on a stick" as some may say (was going to play with words but I'm too tired) !
But could it be sold (marketed) as a $1000-$1500 COIL with a guarantee it can find more gold ...... deeper gold than the best competitor!

If the manufacturer was confident (through testing) that confidence would come out in customers finds & if independently tested (ie believable) I think most serious prospectors would pay more. You might need JP to rev it up a bit!

Some may say it only contains $50-$80 in wire and plastic where is the value??
I will leave that question for others ........ its been discussed often with ML products.

Huego

[Aziz]

Huego,

interesting philosophy.
I'll add the NEED & GREED associated with GOLD finding devices.

And the association with R&D around the metal (gold) detectors.
Did you observe it late times?

You can't even discuss an interesting idea, without it's being locked (patented/stolen) permanently.

Aziz

[Alluvium]

Hi Huego

Answering your questions; on the list of likes and dislikes. Re. Prospecting professionally or doing it just as a hobby.
Over the years I have enjoyed many of the subjects you have suggested.
I will put them in my order of preference, and make comment on each topic.

==================================================================

Finding good GOLD for the hope of WEALTH?

Well mate you can forget the wealth side of things, this could only happen if you have luck on your side. I think that anyone who takes up this great pastime should put the thought of getting rich right to the far corner of their brain.  

Dream about, what could be ie.

We all know it is encouraging to dream of such things, but keep things in perspective, be realistic in your aims.

Researching gold history, maps, tales & local knowledge for new gold areas to work.

This is a must if you wish to succeed in finding good constant gold.
There are many books on the gold rushes, lots of mining reports and records on every gold field. Modern mapping, plus old gold field maps, Google Earth and the overlays available for this, and much more.

All of these can be studied at home to locate likely rich areas, and this is an enjoyable pastime too.


Better DETECTORS (so they can stay in FRONT, find gold missed by those before & those who can’t afford what they can!)

If you are fair dinkum about finding gold, you must have the best detector you can afford. This will give you the best chance of all.

The important thing is to know how to use it to obtain the greatest advantages it can produce.
If you don’t know, get an experienced friend to show you how, otherwise it could take you a couple of years to learn the art of finding worthwhile size nuggets.

Better COILS (tunable, lighter, cheaper, deeper seekers, smaller, quieter).

Yes a better coil will get you more gold, and make that coil larger, preferably a round coil as they detect deeper. Ask advice from professional prospectors what is the best to use with your particular model. There has been recent talk about coils have come to a brick wall as far as their ability to be bettered; I can tell you that is not the case.


Learn eg. how to find & use their tools better?

The way I look at this one is you have to set yourself up to dig the targets with ease and confidence.  Have a smaller pick by all means but have a big one handy as well, these days with detectors responding to targets at up to 2’Ft deep and more, you need to carry in your vehicle a post hole shovel and a crow bar.  Without these you will waste half your day and exhaust yourself as well.

Challenge, Joy, frustration & occasional rewards just looking for this rare metal

Competition & Show – showing what you find, finding more than before or more than mates

Whinge or celebrate - drink beer when they return home or to camp (social)

Learn, laugh & exchange stories on forums?

These I will put into a similar category, there is much joy and frustration in looking to find gold.  Most get a thrill on finding any colour be it large or small, just keep in mind it takes a hell of a lot of tiny fly specks to make up a decent size slug.  
Better to set up for big game, you can still get the small ones with a larger coil, with the size gold these coils miss, please leave them for the ones that come after.

Competition is a good thing, there is nothing wrong with having a bet with your mate etc on who will find the most, biggest, or best looking nugget on any given day. What I have seen through the years, is if you both know what you are doing detecting wise, that every dog has his day.

At the end of the week is seems to pan out about even for you both, so don’t despair if your buddy beats the pants of you today, as his will surely fall off tomorrow.

Show and tell is OK in the right place and with the people you know; get stuck into it around the camp fire, have a p!ss up, BS a bit, celebrate, have a ball with close mates, but beware of going to the pub and throwing that big monster you just found on the counter. I have seen near murders committed doing this sort of thing, in the long run it's better to keep it close.

Talking and showing gold on forums is OK if not too much info is given, it encourages others and shows if they persist what they can find, they should listen more about the equipment used, what the ground was like, the method and settings used, why were they the ones chosen? This will get you a lot further than worrying about where someone else’s gold was found.


Find new gadgets to make detecting safer, more comfortable, more stylish (one figure comes to mind!)


I can see a couple of things to comment about here, when Hugeo talks of detecting being safer, I think he means perhaps buying a GPS and learning how to use it, no one wants to get lost.  

The being more comfortable is certainly the way to go, if you are struggling with your gear and don't feel right you loose your concentration, this in turn will make you leave most of the gold behind.  You may as well pack it in for the day if you are not comfortable.

Using a comfy harness set up for your body shape, a good thickness bungee or maybe a hip stick etc will help. I also swear by a speaker set up instead of phones, if right you will not miss targets.


As far as stylish detecting goes we only have to look at Nero and his flashy set ups, he would have to be the most noticed camo clad operator on any goldfield.

This is only a brief list of what is needed to succeed in this wonderful Profession / Hobby.

Cheers  Alluvium.


Edits for typo's and omissions.   Alluvium.

[shepcal]

I would like to ditto what Alluvium said.
I do it as a hobby, love history and research, competition? That's what I love about this hobby, it's not a race- detect at your own speed, I'm slow and beleive thats the way to go. I do want to find the most and biggest, but also want whoever hunting with me, to also find gold, and have and always will turn a spot over to someone else. Only bit me once.
Shep

[Huego]

Aaaah at Last!!

Thanks Alluvium that is just the sort of response I was looking for. One all can benefit from.
Coming from you makes it all the more valuable and noticeable. I am sure most of us will benefit from these words of wisdom.

A few comments …..

With “dreams” I was referring to them as MOTIVATION but they can be pipe dreams (ie unrealistic).

Certain personal qualities are essential … PERSISTENCE & DRIVE ie not allowing failure to get the better of you.

What about SPARES? What would you suggest taking with you? (carrying on back or belt and in the vehicle).

SAFETY ? ….. yes, I was referring to GPS but also water, snake kit, etc.

You picked up on the allusions to others!

Huego

[Huego]

Huego,

interesting philosophy.
I'll add the NEED & GREED associated with GOLD finding devices.

And the association with R&D around the metal (gold) detectors.
Did you observe it late times?

You can't even discuss an interesting idea, without it's being locked (patented/stolen) permanently.

Aziz

Don't know about ideas being locked or pinched Aziz, I don't follow it.

BUT I think PROSPECTING brings out both the BEST OR the VERY WORST out of those who do it. Seems to polarise. It depends, but on what?

A "find" (a patch) can make some VERY defensive, protective & threatening to others ........ "IT'S MINE, ALL MINE".........

Others want to share, as Shep says, and enjoy the JOY. Again, it depends, but on what?

As I am sure Alluvium has found, prospecting can turn best friends against each other!! 

WHY is that??   Is it the illusion of riches?? Bent personalities? Greed?

Huego

[Alluvium]

Hi Shep & Huego,

Thanks for agreeing with my post, I am sure most operators detect on a hobby basis and the best of luck to them. It sure is great looking up the history of yesteryear when men were men and gold was plentiful.

You are so right Shep, no hurry needed just stroll out and dig them up, after all most nuggets have been sitting buried in that spot for hundreds of thousands of years.  A day, a week, a month, what’s it going to matter when?

We all like to win but not at all costs, unfortunately that’s what some prospectors think, and that’s not right.  Like you, I have shared many a patch with detecting friends, it gives you a good feeling, after all it only gold, not a life time friendship that can be lost over yellow metal.

Huego it was a pleasure to write about detecting and gold, yes I have some time today to put a few words together.
I must say I enjoy helping others, who may wish to know the answers on many of the things I have learnt about detecting.

Re your comments about Motivation (Dreams), I suppose we all differ with our own nature when looking at motivation,  most don’t need any once the gold bug bites them, some will almost need a bomb under them to get their act together, but the majority of these only feel that way because of the lack of gold finds.

I would suggest to them to join a detecting club, or go on an organised gold finding safari, they need the experience learn't from detecting with others. This builds confidence, and once this is gained there is no holding back, most have teamed up by then, making detecting friends from their expeditions with others who are like minded.  

The qualities of persistence and drive are the keys to finding more gold, sure there are gold-less days to be had and forgotten.
Never say die, push yourself to keep trying, take your time, don’t hurry, put your head down and concentrate. Think to yourself the next piece is that much closer, those rubbish targets you have been digging up today have got to come to an end sometime, and they do.

I like to think over in my mind, ”I know hundreds have gone over this area before me,  but my detector and the settings used, plus coil size and type is better than they had, and I think I am a better operator than they were”.

Keep thinking on those lines, cover all the ground with plastic, place the coil where others have been too slack to move a branch or swing into a little hidden corner, these are the places where good size gold still waits to be found.
If you have everything tuned to the ultimate and detect better than others, you do come up with gold. Then people say to you of how lucky you are, how come you find so many good pieces??

As you can see it is nearly all attitude, with a bit of skill (through practice) thrown in, that what makes the difference.

Safety is a personal preference, most prospectors carry a comprehensive first aid kit in the car and some depending where they are detecting, carry water in a small belt mounted bottle.  At certain times of the year in snake season, some take a snake bite outfit as well as a few first aid supplies in their backpack, a small torch and a pocket knife is a good move also.

Talking on gold bringing out the worst in some people and why, brings many memories of the hundreds I have met in this pastime. What I will do is write and post of some of the goings on I have come across over the last 30 odd years on this subject. This I will do over the next few weeks.

I will also draw up a list of what spares to carry in your vehicle and on your person, hopefully by tomorrow.

Cheers to all Alluvium.

[Huego]

Thanks again Alluvium!

Talking about "PROSPECTING brings out both the BEST OR the VERY WORST out of those who do it. Seems to polarise them. It depends, but on what?"

I think I get it ……

When gold is found the best hearted prospectors feel good, altruistic and want to share their joy, and even allow others some part of it eg share the patch and the feel good nature of a find. In the olden days they would dance and yell, go to the pub, shout drinks or buy expensive French champagne & share it (maybe with mate on the goldfields). I have often found bits of old champagne bottle in the goldfields.

However, others are influenced by uncontrolled greed, which can turn VERY nasty. If they turn to drink for solace, they can often become worse and violent. I am sure we have seen this sort of thing.

Others get insular and sulky or determined to find their own tomorrow,

I have seen all three behaviours in the goldfields and I bet many others have too. Being a student of human nature, I thought others may wish to comment too. Just personal views.

Gold doesn’t CHANGE people, like alcohol it reveals what is already there, just underneath.

Huego

[Alluvium]

Hi Huego,

I have drawn up a list of gear needed for differing length trips to gold fields.

You could look at these as say a weekend away camping in the bush detecting.

Another list is for Weeks / Months away on a lengthy Gold expedition interstate.

Firstly we can compile a list for just a weekends detecting.
This will require some type of overnight accommodation in a nearby town, or you towing a van or small camper. Some may prefer a tent and associated gear.

CAMP GEAR                                                                        

Tent, (poles ropes & pegs) Heavy black plastic sheet. (For under tent).                             

Shower Gear if required? Gas stove, stand, bottle & hose.                                             

Lighting for camp, optional.  Gas/Elec. Fridge/Freezer, bottle & hose. (Seasonal).  or (Esky with ice).               

Wash dishes x 2, (1for personal use), Buckets, 1 x 10 ltr. 1 x 20 ltr.(Plastic), Boiler drum 20 ltr. (For fire).
 Re: Shower & washing up. 
Pots, Pans, Billy, Cutlery, Crockery, Food Drinks & Water.                                                                                     

Table (card) chairs x 2, Stretchers, Mattresses x Sleeping bags, Fire grill/plate (in hessian bag).
Lifter hook for campfire etc.       

Rope, cord, string, Mossi net, coils & Spray, Mirror, Ocy straps. Hammer for tent pegs, Small shovel, Light steel rake, (For preparing tent site).   

A 6 x 4 trailer is handy to fit in all this camping gear.                                                               

As you can see perhaps a night or two in a motel does make for an easier weekend.

Things I carry in my car all the time when detecting, I have a 4x4 wagon with drawers, compartments etc.

Detector, Back pack harness and Belt combo, Battery, Chargers, Speaker, H/Phones, Multi meter, Magnet Curly leads. Camera.
Assorted Coils & Stems.  Bag of assorted spares for detector repairs, Small 12V Soldering iron & Solder, Smaller pick, Rock chisel / Gad & mash Hammer, Rake.
 
Large pick, Crow Bar (large), Post Hole Shovel, Tomahawk, Pruning Saw (For cutting tree roots), Gold containers, Gold Scales, GPS & spare batteries. Gold Maps & Notes etc. Spare clothes & coat plus Boots.

If you are going walkabout prospecting, and intend to be away most of the day, some of these items may need to be included.

Long Distance Prospecting:

Gear to Carry:    Your complete Detecting setup (Checking the detector and the Battery pack is fully charged first, make sure that everything is working properly, carry a Small lighter Pick on these treks.  In a back pack carry your GPS & Spare Batteries, not forgetting to always mark the vehicle location before starting out.

Plus in the B/Pack a Compass & Map, Umpires Whistle, Toilet paper, Roll of Insulation Tape, LED Torch, and a Small pocket Knife, you should carry a box of matches too. When out with mates use UHF hand held Radios, using pre determined times to call each other, say every 2 hours on the hour, whatever.                                   

During hot weather always carry a Water Bottle on your belt and a Snake Bite outfit, 

I had a mate who got lost in WA without water or a radio; he had walked in a semi circle detecting until lunch time. Trying to walk back to camp he lost direction so he stopped and lit a signal fire, placing lots of green leaves on the top. We realized he must have been in trouble not coming back for lunch as planned.

So jumping in the car we drove cross country in a circle looking for any signs of him. With Max creating lots of smoke, we found him in about 2 hours. He had not had a drink since breakfast that morning, I’m sure he defiantly enjoyed that icy cold can of Emu Bitter, as he slumped in the back seat of the Hi Lux.

We heard him mumbling something like “Just like Mother’s milk”. However Max did find some gold, but his life was more important, obviously he was not prepared enough.

Detecting Close to the Vehicle.

Here are details of what you may need to carry on your person while detecting, this is if you detect near the vehicle or Quad. Any heavy digging gear and probe, spares etc, can be left at the vehicle.

Detecting within say 300 metres of your car, make it light and simple, just your detector setup and small pick, a Gold Container, sometimes you may need to keep your fluids up so then clip on a water bottle. My mate and I still each carry small hand held 2 way radios, letting the other know when gold is found. But this is just for convenience for us.

Spares to carry in a kit left in the car when detecting.

If you approach this looking at the appropriate detector spares to have, say on a WA extended trip.
Then you can prune these down to suit your own circumstances, as if a detecting shop is near, buy things as you need them.

A spare older model control box is really a must out in the wilderness, Coil Stems, Coils, a spare handle with grip can be handy, another bungee, a couple of spare curly leads, spare H/Phones, Speaker etc.

A second battery unit is necessary, plus some other means to recharge them if the 12volt car charger packs it in.  Perhaps an inverter 12v to 240v using the 240v charger. Your mate may be able to help you out after he charges his up first. a second Pick, belt and holder.

The means to solder wiring 12volt preferable,  Detector Plugs etc, Spare insulated wire, Insulating Tapes including Teflon, Masking & Coil Tape, Super Glue, Araldite Silicone. A comprehensive tool kit with S/Drivers, Spanners, Sockets, Pliers, Side Cutters, whatever you like to add as well.

Cheers and Good luck.

Alluvium

[Aziz]

Hi Alluvium,

thanks for sharing your very valuable tips and experience.
Aziz

[Huego]

Thanks Alluvium,

many will find stuff like that helpful, especially the newies. Top advice from your many years of experience (and success) .

Others will look forward to your stories about what GOLD does to peoples behaviour. You must have MANY good tales to tell.

Huego

[WM6]

Great contribution Alluvium as always.

You mentioned that ".... some take a snake bite outfit as well."

What one can do in case of snake bite, how much is such first aid helpful?

Are snakes in Oz protected by law?

[Alluvium]

Hi WM6,

Referring to Snake Bite here in Australia.

Have a look at this site here:  http://www.anaes.med.usyd.edu.au/venom/snakebite.html

This should tell you what you require about all aspects of Snakes and bite treatment in OZ. 

Cheers Alluvium.

PS: I see you are also worried about the QED, it is progressing very nicely thank you.     

[Doug]

Great contribution Alluvium as always.

You mentioned that ".... some take a snake bite outfit as well."

What one can do in case of snake bite, how much is such first aid helpful?

Are snakes in Oz protected by low?

Snakes in Oz are  I understand a protected species.
doug

[Vapor_Man]

Hi Alluvium,

thanks for sharing your very valuable tips and experience.
Aziz

I agree with Aziz--this is great information and it should be disseminated widely.  Why don't you write a book about your experiences and advice for newbies.

Some years ago I went to a gold mine in the outback to install metal detectors on their conveyer belts. Before I was allowed to roam on the grounds without an escort, I had to take a safety class which included information about snakes and venomous spiders.  One snake was called "the one-step", allegedly because you only could take one step before you lost consciousness.  I don't know if that was only a tale or not.

At any rate, at night we were advised to stay on the lighted trails that led from our living quarters to the dining hall...

All the best,

Allan