australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com

Pi metal detector by Bugwhiskers => QED Detector ,latest updates => Topic started by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 05:09:23 AEDT AM



Title: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 05:09:23 AEDT AM
On this, the 162nd anniversary of the Eureka Rebellion I am pleased to announce that Goldsearch Australia has been appointed the Australian Distributor.

http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/

Check out the website after Wednesday 7th December for more information.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Saturday December 3 2016 06:26:19 AEDT AM
5 more days ! Its been a long long road. Best wishes.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Saturday December 3 2016 06:46:20 AEDT AM
Nice one Bugwhiskers!

Do sales begin on 7th?

Thanks.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 07:06:07 AEDT AM
  
Nice one Bugwhiskers!

Do sales begin on 7th?

Thanks.

Fingers crossed, a few things to put in place first.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: pedro on Saturday December 3 2016 07:13:19 AEDT AM
Hope it all goes well for you Bugwhiskers
Cheers


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Saturday December 3 2016 08:19:01 AEDT AM
Congratulations.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Saturday December 3 2016 09:16:42 AEDT AM
nice unit , well done bugs , never thought it would happen


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Saturday December 3 2016 09:23:10 AEDT AM
The QED also  has been tested (by a certified tester) for EMI compliance and  has passed  all the testing.
 I don't know what the price will be yet i expect it will be less than the SAD 7000 19" coil!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Saturday December 3 2016 09:28:12 AEDT AM
nice timing bugs , any idea on cost , and will it come assembled ,or is it in kit form and need a tec to assemble it , cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: egixe4 on Saturday December 3 2016 10:02:37 AEDT AM
Congratulations Bugwhiskers,
I will be getting mine ASAP
 ::04::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 10:04:15 AEDT AM
Around half the price of the TDI and Garrett ATX.
The included standard coil will be the Nugget Finder 12" EVO.
Not a kit, fully functional.
Woman, child and fragile old codger friendly with the all up weight under 2Kg.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Saturday December 3 2016 10:14:44 AEDT AM
awesome bugs , i wil have one , to tell you the truth im flabbergasted it has happened ,
 i thought some big company would stop this happening
great to see another great ozzie detector
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Saturday December 3 2016 10:47:53 AEDT AM
Quote
The included standard coil will be the Nugget Finder 12" EVO.



Can there be an option of no coil, for the people who already have one ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 11:20:13 AEDT AM
  
Quote
The included standard coil will be the Nugget Finder 12" EVO.



Can there be an option of no coil, for the people who already have one ?


There will be options to buy just what you want. The box, the handle, the coil or the lot.
An optional extra will be an additional external battery box that will extend the battery life and allow detection for over 40 hours between charges. It can be mounted at varying points along the rear of the handle to counterbalance the weight of the coil.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Saturday December 3 2016 12:58:50 AEDT PM
 The QED has been tested in Vic goldfields and HAS found  nuggets and specimens in undisturbed, mineralized ground.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Saturday December 3 2016 13:42:16 AEDT PM
CONGRATULATIONS BUGS!

Quote

Not a kit, fully functional.
Woman, child and fragile old codger friendly with the all up weight under 2Kg.



What a wonderful Eureka Anniversary moment & pressie for someone. (like me!)

A price around $1800-1900 will suit most who are not attracted to a 19" coil which weighs the same as a complete QED.

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Saturday December 3 2016 13:50:46 AEDT PM
  
  
Quote
The included standard coil will be the Nugget Finder 12" EVO.



Can there be an option of no coil, for the people who already have one ?


There will be options to buy just what you want. The box, the handle, the coil or the lot.
An optional extra will be an additional external battery box that will extend the battery life and allow detection for over 40 hours between charges. It can be mounted at varying points along the rear of the handle to counterbalance the weight of the coil.

Excellent, thats great news for those who have a variety of coils already and dont need to double up .


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: authere on Saturday December 3 2016 14:40:48 AEDT PM
Hi Bugsy,

Congratulations, a hell of a trip to get here but finally a bit of competition, I have ordered one from Goldsearch and look forward to using it next season

Yahoo, Ron


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: GARY on Saturday December 3 2016 15:21:38 AEDT PM
It was back in 2004 that I had my first detecting trip to the Golden Triangle in Victoria and unbeknown to me at that time after I paid for my Miners Right it was the 150th Anniversary year of the Eureka Rebellion.

It was not until later in that year of 2004 and too my surprise and joy that I received in the post a special 1854 EUREKA 150 MINERS RIGHT 2004 certificate.

Therefore bugwhiskers on this, as you say the 162nd Anniversary, congratulations also.

Gary..


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 17:08:52 AEDT PM
Today's Ballarat Courier.
The key words, "rights and liberties".

http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/4331984/opinion-ron-egeberg/



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 17:12:35 AEDT PM
  
It was back in 2004 that I had my first detecting trip to the Golden Triangle in Victoria and unbeknown to me at that time after I paid for my Miners Right it was the 150th Anniversary year of the Eureka Rebellion.

It was not until later in that year of 2004 and too my surprise and joy that I received in the post a special 1854 EUREKA 150 MINERS RIGHT 2004 certificate.

Therefore bugwhiskers on this, as you say the 162nd Anniversary, congratulations also.

Gary..


They are not being mass produced in a factory. Each one uses a commercially made PCB but the soldering of the many parts is all done by hand. I am hoping there is no mad rush of orders leaving people disgruntled.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Saturday December 3 2016 17:15:52 AEDT PM
Perhaps IF “they" give JP a QED to test, as Robby H suggests, "they" will also provide him with a suitable NDA to sign. One with clause "Praise the product BUT don’t discuss anything negative about it with competitors"! ::620:: ::620::

I'm unsure that JP as a competitor's tester & promoter can be trusted to be unbiased with the QED. There have been years of negative emotion associated with it from critics who knew nothing about it.

Interestingly, I wonder if there is a tag / disclaimer inside saying  "The QED contains NO patented or protected IP”.

The hand assembly / soldering should ensure better QC.  ::419::

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 17:20:28 AEDT PM
I forgot to mention. Each board is calibrated to ensure correct battery voltage reading and the bias adjustment and TX voltage adjust. This is followed by a "burn in" of about 2 hours and also a tapping test to see if there are any bad joints.
Has anybody noticed that the first model is called PL. Who wants to have a guess why?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: egixe4 on Saturday December 3 2016 18:01:24 AEDT PM
  
  
It was back in 2004 that I had my first detecting trip to the Golden Triangle in Victoria and unbeknown to me at that time after I paid for my Miners Right it was the 150th Anniversary year of the Eureka Rebellion.

It was not until later in that year of 2004 and too my surprise and joy that I received in the post a special 1854 EUREKA 150 MINERS RIGHT 2004 certificate.

Therefore bugwhiskers on this, as you say the 162nd Anniversary, congratulations also.

Gary..


They are not being mass produced in a factory. Each one uses a commercially made PCB but the soldering of the many parts is all done by hand. I am hoping there is no mad rush of orders leaving people disgruntled.

I reckon you better get soldering mate, You may be swamped, 1 for me and a few others on here, a few from other forums, You may need a 100 done before Christmas.

Prospectors Liberation



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Saturday December 3 2016 18:04:27 AEDT PM
  

Has anybody noticed that the first model is called PL.
Who wants to have a guess why?



My guess this model is in memory & respect for Peter Lalor (PL)

As a Eureka hero & leader Peter Lalor, in later life was Speaker of the House in the Legislative Assembly of Victoria. The symbolism with & the fight for the QED is not lost on most members here esp. PL's comments needing to take action to defend the beliefs of true believers (in social justice) & the injustice of not having $$$ to counter-attack the attackers… as it is so richly phrased below.

"Following the battle, rebel leader, Irish Australian Peter Lalor, wrote .. to the colonists of Victoria, "There are two things connected with the late outbreak (Eureka) which I deeply regret. The first is, that we shouldn't have been forced to take up arms at all; and the second is, that when we were compelled to take the field in our own defence, we were unable (through want of arms, ammunition and a little organisation) to inflict on the real authors of the outbreak the punishment they so richly deserved"... (Wiki - Eureka Rebellion)

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Cliff on Saturday December 3 2016 18:27:37 AEDT PM
Well done Howard!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 3 2016 18:29:15 AEDT PM
Well done Huego, you got it in one.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Saturday December 3 2016 19:45:14 AEDT PM
1st post here guys. gday Im dave, from Darwin, (not D.Langley, nice fella Dave.)
Firstly, congrats on getting the QED up and running, wish you all the best!
Secondly, I want one! LOL. Ive already sent goldsearch a request, and look forward to getting out there and using one. Hope you don,t get too swamped too soon, I am patient though, and won,t be disgruntled (to much) if I have to wait a bit.
Best of luck, been following progress for a while now.
Cheers dave.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Ginger Ninja on Saturday December 3 2016 22:11:01 AEDT PM
 ::05:: Congratulations.
And to all those who gave you a hard time & put obstacles in your path : "Success is the best form of Revenge" ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Sunday December 4 2016 03:06:11 AEDT AM
BW, the answer will make no difference to me regarding the purchase of a QED, I am buying one regardless,but how weather resistant id the box and all the good stuff inside?
Ta, dave.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: WM6 on Sunday December 4 2016 04:55:36 AEDT AM
Nice end-up BW.
Congratulations.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday December 4 2016 05:41:52 AEDT AM
  
BW, the answer will make no difference to me regarding the purchase of a QED, I am buying one regardless,but how weather resistant id the box and all the good stuff inside?
Ta, dave.

The box is not submersible or rain proof.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Sunday December 4 2016 05:46:15 AEDT AM
no worries, so Ill need to be carefull in our wet season eh! Placcy bag untill I can get back to the car, or maybe just a dry season thing, to hot now anyway!

BTW, thanks for sticking to your project, many would have given up.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 4 2016 09:04:52 AEDT AM
 One thing that BW has not yet mentioned is that the QED is designed only to use  mono coils.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 4 2016 09:10:51 AEDT AM
 BW at some stage could you go through and explain all the QED menu options  and how they are used.eg how do you optimize the settings for different mono coils eg for those of us that have older and perhaps slower coils.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Sunday December 4 2016 09:41:42 AEDT AM
hi all , just placed my order with goldsearch ,


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 4 2016 11:29:58 AEDT AM
Some people expect a lot!
"--- QED control box is not even rain proof"
None of the ML SD,GP,GPX control boxes are rain proof either!!!! Weather proof control boxes and plugs would add dramatically to the price of the QED.
As for pricing that is not yet sorted out but i believe that the QED with NF 12"  coil will retail for substantially less than the cheapest TDI.
Field testing has shown that the QED will outperform the TDI for depth and sensitivity on gold.
doug ::419::
Edited:Sunday December 4 2016 11:31:25 AEDT AM


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Tathradj on Sunday December 4 2016 11:38:44 AEDT AM
I have been watching this for the past few years with great interest and finally, It is here. :) :)
I will be making inquiries as to whether I can just purchase the control box as I have an arsenal of coils and shafts.
This is going to be very interesting.
Congratulations on bringing your project to fruition.
It has been a long hard path, " Good things come to those who wait. "


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 4 2016 11:43:25 AEDT AM
  
I have been watching this for the past few years with great interest and finally, It is here. :) :)
I will be making inquiries as to whether I can just purchase the control box as I have an arsenal of coils and shafts.
This is going to be very interesting.
Congratulations on bringing your project to fruition.
It has been a long hard path, " Good things come to those who wait. "



“There will be options to buy just what you want. The box, the handle, the coil or the lot.”
http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/new-board-109/qed-update-8893/
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 4 2016 11:47:21 AEDT AM
  
Some people expect a lot!
"--- QED control box is not even rain proof"
None of the ML SD,GP,GPX control boxes are rain proof either!!!! Weather proof control boxes and plugs would add dramatically to the price of the QED.
As for pricing that is not yet sorted out but i believe that the QED with NF 12"  coil will retail for substantially less than the cheapest TDI.
Field testing has shown that the QED will outperform the TDI for depth and sensitivity on gold.
doug ::419::
Edited:Sunday December 4 2016 11:31:25 AEDT AM

The QED circuit is remarkably  robust.I will  let BW tell you some of the horrendous things he has done to  try and blow up or destroy the QED circuit. eg plugging and unplugging coils while the detector is running!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Tathradj on Sunday December 4 2016 13:14:03 AEDT PM
Yes, I seen that Doug and have already sent of an email. :) :)
I wonder how it will go with an EVO 17x13 hanging off the end of the giggle stick. LOL
Exciting times ahead.  ::10 ::
Doug
(Yes, I am a Doug as well )


  
  
I have been watching this for the past few years with great interest and finally, It is here. :) :)
I will be making inquiries as to whether I can just purchase the control box as I have an arsenal of coils and shafts.
This is going to be very interesting.
Congratulations on bringing your project to fruition.
It has been a long hard path, " Good things come to those who wait. "



“There will be options to buy just what you want. The box, the handle, the coil or the lot.”
http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/new-board-109/qed-update-8893/
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday December 4 2016 15:17:36 AEDT PM
  
  
Some people expect a lot!
"--- QED control box is not even rain proof"
None of the ML SD,GP,GPX control boxes are rain proof either!!!! Weather proof control boxes and plugs would add dramatically to the price of the QED.
As for pricing that is not yet sorted out but i believe that the QED with NF 12"  coil will retail for substantially less than the cheapest TDI.
Field testing has shown that the QED will outperform the TDI for depth and sensitivity on gold.
doug ::419::
Edited:Sunday December 4 2016 11:31:25 AEDT AM

The QED circuit is remarkably  robust.I will  let BW tell you some of the horrendous things he has done to  try and blow up or destroy the QED circuit. eg plugging and unplugging coils while the detector is running!
doug ::419::

If the coil is faulty eg short circuit the detector will start then shut down immediately, If the coil short circuits while the detector is running it shuts down immediately without damage.When the batteries are down to minimum the detector shuts down automatically. The prevents the expensive batteries being damaged. Ignore the ranters who bag a product without ever using it. Their motive and connections are obvious.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Blacksand on Sunday December 4 2016 17:37:11 AEDT PM
Hi BW,

Great to see "your baby" is now available. I like the idea of buying just the control box and shaft. And as for a waterproof control box, who prospects out in the rain. Will you provide a 240 volt charger and 12 volt car charger? Wishing you great success.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Eski on Sunday December 4 2016 18:21:04 AEDT PM
HI All.

Bugs Well done.
It takes a lot of persistance to follow through all the way to a retail ready product.

In terms of being waterproof - unlike a GPX, a plastic bag will provide all necesary water proofing given it is placed on the top side of the shaft.

Bugs , do you have a features list?
what is the lowest sample delay ?
I cant remember - is it constant current?
does the ground balance handle variable ground like a gpz?
I want to believe!!!!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Sunday December 4 2016 22:41:14 AEDT PM
Have been following you many years.. Bugs ...all the ups n downs you have struggled thru..
Congrats on finally bringing this project to fruition.. What are those black hatters thinking I wonder
Will definitely Aquire one ...again well done mate


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 5 2016 05:46:19 AEDT AM
  
HI All.

Bugs Well done.
It takes a lot of persistance to follow through all the way to a retail ready product.

In terms of being waterproof - unlike a GPX, a plastic bag will provide all necesary water proofing given it is placed on the top side of the shaft.

Bugs , do

you have a features list?
what is the lowest sample delay ?
I cant remember - is it constant current?
does the ground balance handle variable ground like a gpz?
I want to believe!!!!

Please checkout  the Goldsearch Australia website on Wednesday.
http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/


Title: Re: QED update:old mate telling lies again on Finders!
Post by: Doug on Monday December 5 2016 13:22:59 AEDT PM
Rather than telling lies "Oldmate" as a moderator of Beepstick should get off his lazy bum and start cleaning out all the spam and porn on  that forum!.
I cannot understand why such an incompetent, moronic  buffoon  was ever made a forum moderator!
http://www.finders.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9362&start=15&sid=615ddf2f36e919a6c17acff5308be8a9
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Monday December 5 2016 14:37:36 AEDT PM
Yeh he is a dill Doug... I would expect inquiries & orders will be flooding in. Thats all one can expect at this stage.
Both dealer & Bugs will be happy with that.

Quote

If it performs as well 4500 it will be a winner.
It will give the bird to all those who said it would never be released.
I don't see any of those people coming up with anything of value.

....."heaps of firm email and web orders and it’s looking like they’re going to be overwhelmed with orders. .... Old Mate, .... if I was the sole retailer, I’d be as happy as..... "

(Yellowfin, Finders)


You can say that again YK ... OK I will ....  ::419::

It will "give the bird" to all those who said it would never be released.

Its great to see many (mostly) happy prospects & potential buyers seeing the potential value in the QED!!

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Monday December 5 2016 18:48:08 AEDT PM
Im one of the ones who has sent an e mail to gold search, I would pay now, upfront, but don, t know how much?! ::62::
Im guessing BW has a few ready to go, as Inhere wrote "they will be made one at a time", Im hopeing the wait wont be tooooo long, but hey, Ive waited a fair while so far, whats a bit longer?
Look forward to having one, I reckon its gonna be a valuable tool to me. Thanks BW, s Doug and all the crew involved.


Title: Re: QED update:reply to the patent parrots latest rant on finders
Post by: Doug on Monday December 5 2016 21:44:38 AEDT PM
“Nero posted the discovery order on 4umer that ML issued against Bugwhiskers. It was issued when he implied that version one QED used a combination of samples to achieve the same result as Minelab's smooth timings patent. He ignored previous warnings re possible infringement so ML issued the discovery order rather than wait until after the thing had gone into production. They did Bugs a favor”

What the patent parrot does not say is that  if the“previous warnings re possible infringement” occurred before either the QED or the ML patent (515) were granted  then under the patent act this if proven amounts to unjustified threats of patent infringement!
Its worth noting that ML have still not challenged the QED patent!!!!
And as for Candy doing his own thing entirely with  the SD2000 and totally ignoring the early pioneers like Eric foster is simply baloney!
 This comment by the patent parrot in reply to a post by Reg is most interesting
“The comment you made re telling  Candy about a ground balancing PI back in the eighties (Eric Fosters Goldscan) was potentially very damaging to both Candy and Minelab.”
doug ::419::
Ps dead men sometimes do tell tales!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 6 2016 04:21:08 AEDT AM
To everyone who has been following the QED saga I would like to update you on the circumstances surrounding its release. As you are aware, Minelab Party had suggested that I might be infringing on their intellectual property. This led to a long series of events and a back and forth between them and myself.

To cut to the chase, I decided to change my ground balance method enough to satisfy Minelab's concerns and to bring an end to the dispute. I am please to report that I am in receipt of a letter from Peter Charlesworth, Minelab's General Manager stating that they have no objection to my selling a detector that utilises the said change/s. I am sure that Peter is just as relieved as I am that the dispute has been resolved without any further cost of time or money.

There are undoubtedly going to be some bad feelings voiced from a few Minelab dealers. My advice is for them to simply get over it. One of the things that we as Australians should take pride in is that there is always a chance for the little bloke to make a go of things. I am a one man outfit so please get off my back and think of your fellow prospectors.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Eski on Tuesday December 6 2016 06:43:02 AEDT AM
Hey Bugs , well done.

Interesting timing for goldsearch to be closed... would they have any backlash?

agree about the dealers. On P.A i just wish people with vested interest keep their comments to themselves or at least state on their post that they their livelyhood relies on minersden and thus mindflab... There are plenty of good ppl on there but some are just negative and closed minded.

anyway , we are another day closer- YAY!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: techo_bob on Tuesday December 6 2016 08:07:50 AEDT AM
Hi Bugs

What a huge effort you guys have put in.
Very well done indeed!!
I am the President of the sunbury metal detecting club and have been keeping members informed of progress with a number of possible
"Other Detectors" coming on the market , the boys are especially interested in the saga of the Q.E.D.
If possible can you give us some technical specs on the latest version for sale .
we have our last club meeting tomorrow night and would love to give a report.
you can PM me if you don't want to post it here

Thanks
Bob..


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Tuesday December 6 2016 08:43:13 AEDT AM
Quote
If possible can you give us some technical specs on the latest version for sale .
we have our last club meeting tomorrow night and would love to give a report.


I would also like to give a report to my club tomorrow night as well, any info would be helpfull thanks Bugs.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 6 2016 10:06:27 AEDT AM
When Dean is back at work at
 http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/
he will be adding a lot of info.
I suggest you direct your club members there.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: techo_bob on Tuesday December 6 2016 10:19:03 AEDT AM
Thanks Bugs

Will do.

Bob


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Tuesday December 6 2016 10:45:56 AEDT AM
just like xmas , only 1 sleep to go ,
 ::10 :: red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Tuesday December 6 2016 14:39:40 AEDT PM
The QED has gone public & more details will be available from Goldsearch tomorrow as Bugs has announced. But the usual crowd of ML defenders still want to bag the QED, as if its a form of ML imitator or mock up. Its mockingly called “a crumpet on a stick” -  that’s competition for ya and even without knowing about it. Yep, keep following threads on the QED here. You need to for the facts rather than getting your cojones twisted or pricked by the spinifex when you crap on about the QED. "Give it (your arse) a rest" from the pricks.  ::620::

Meanwhile the QED quietly progresses to commercialisation. It has never been proved to contain anyone's protected IP. Vids have been released during development showing how easily it balances, how quietly it can run, its good metal detecting ability & comparos with existing PIs, it size, weight, duration etc etc have all been published. Going thru this dealer, buyers luckily won’t be screened for their business allegiances.  ::10 :: I expect a buyer is a buyer, even if a flounder or a moron, or a ML moral defender or engineer. Even those from TC or NT or Qld can buy one ... but I expect it will cost them, like a small gold tax $$.

Quote

There are undoubtedly going to be some bad feelings voiced from a few Minelab dealers. My advice is for them to simply get over it. One of the things that we as Australians should take pride in is that there is always a chance for the little bloke to make a go of things. I am a one man outfit so please get off my back and think of your fellow prospectors. (Bugs)  



Ongoing ranting to 'slag & bag' members here & the QED at every opportunity is so typical of the QED’s critics. Fortunatley there are plenty of open-minded prospectors around, as the tide turns, willing to give the QED a go. Yep, the QED's been long-time discussed & coming. Its performance IS documented but the attributes that impress me most are … its small size, low weight, ruggedness, affordability, ease of use / ergonomics, availability with / without coils  etc, and that its a ground balancing PI. I avoid comparisons with the obvious models for obvious reasons, others should do that. Meanwhile I’m sure there wil be plenty of profit & kudos in it for Goldsearch from the dozens of inquiries & orders they have been received already. But prospectors will still need to find their own gold, in their way, on their patches, not rely on false pics as some want or need to motivate themselves or to improve sales.

Most if not all members here have used ML detectors for years, many still do. So they DO know about PIs, their costs & promised performance with each upgrade / model, including their limitations, as well as their ability to find gold. This has to be established with a QED. What gold is missed is unknown.

Any criticisms & questioning by members here (of IP, competitors products & business practices) over the years have ALL been substantiated - legally, morally & technically. No respondent has been able to justify (legally, morally or rationally) how a company can justify their behaviour, against the interests of consumers (prospectors). Is it because they lack real competition or because thay wish to attack impending competition or was it soley a profit motive ? Who knows, its VERY un-Australian.

Justified scepticism, or even healthy & robust criticism of the QED is welcome as long as its based on a fresh reality, not the old lies / imaginings or distortions from a competitor’s defenders. The QED & its designer / developer, have been supported & defended here for many years, through thick & thin. Finally, in good faith, Bugs even got this competitors 'approval' / authority to use his own technology & IP in his own product!!  Astounding! ::406::

The QEDs history & route to market success I hope will one day be published for prospectors & for posterity, an extension of the Eureka Story, 160+ years on.

So, realign your attitudes / values - keep swimming through the smokin’ spini', make sure you keep wearing your floaties (Huggies) & waterproof / bullet-proof budgies tho.

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Tuesday December 6 2016 16:26:33 AEDT PM
Bugwiskers or Doug,
Could you please inform where the QED sits in gold-find performance?
E.g.
If a team searched a new typical outback gold field in undetected ground, half with 5k, half with QED, what would the ratio of gold finds likely be?
If it is used in thrashed areas that have had combinations of detectors and coils pass over it, will it find missed nuggets? If so, what would the mean time between nugget finds very roughly be?
Etc.
I definitely will be ordering a QED!
Thanks!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Tuesday December 6 2016 16:43:55 AEDT PM
If you are a member of this forum then it is worth a look back at the replies #541 and #542 by BW in that very extensive Fightback discussion thread.  

The results shown in both graphs displayed in replies #541 and #542 then it appears to be on par with the ATX and SDC.

Also BW has mentioned in this thread that the QED’s price is around half that of a TDI and a Garrett ATX and if it was around half the price of an SDC then it would be another option for the gold detector scene.

Another advantage may be the QED’s overall weight as BW has mentioned its all up weight to be under 2kg (4.5lbs).

Considering the SDC’s overall weight with batteries installed is 5.7Ibs (2.58Kgs) and the ATX at 6.9Ibs (3.12Kgs) then if the QED’s weight with the 12 Evo coil is still under 2kgs then if one wished to use say an 8” mono or even the 11” ultra-spiral wound mono, which are both lighter than the 12” Evo then the QED would be a viable option also for those where weight of the detector is a governing factor for them.

Looking at the picture of the QED’s control box in the opening post of this thread then it appears to use a different procedure and type of settings to what operates are use too with the other detectors.

Therefore I would think that one would need to have patience to get use too how its settings work to get the max performance from this detector.

I assume BW reasoning behind his detector is to offer a viable option in both cost, weight that will be able to handled mineralised ground on our goldfields without too much depth loss compared to the more expensive detectors.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Tuesday December 6 2016 17:31:56 AEDT PM
Unfortunately, the thread mentioned wont be visible to many. Perhaps charts could be reposted where all interested could have a look see at them ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Tuesday December 6 2016 18:25:39 AEDT PM
  

Bugwiskers or Doug,
Could you please inform where the QED sits in gold-find performance?
E.g. If a team searched a new typical outback gold field in undetected ground, half with 5k, half with QED, what would the ratio of gold finds likely be?

If it is used in thrashed areas that have had combinations of detectors and coils pass over it, will it find missed nuggets? If so, what would the mean time between nugget finds very roughly be?



Addressed to Bugs or Doug .... BUT

In my view it would be total guesswork (ie meaningless) to make such a guess / estimate at this stage. Maybe after years of testing one could make such a guess if the operator was the same. The results would also depend on the experience of the operator & many other variables eg coils settings etc. Thats my view. Doug & Bugs' may be different.

Yes Grelourie, not visible to all for good reason. Comparisons HAVE been made of target response (small to large) between a QED 12" NF EVO coil, a GPX4500 ENHANCE 12" NF EVO coil and a  SDC2300 std 8" coil.

...... as well as a QED with 12" NF EVO coil, a Garrett ATX with std coil and a Garrett AT Gold (VLF)

Of course the QED excelled but its up to Bugs to show these graphs IF & WHEN he wishes

 ::62::



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: crazy78 on Tuesday December 6 2016 19:27:43 AEDT PM
 Congratulations Bugwhiskers  ::99::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 6 2016 19:57:07 AEDT PM
  
  

Bugwiskers or Doug,
Could you please inform where the QED sits in gold-find performance?
E.g. If a team searched a new typical outback gold field in undetected ground, half with 5k, half with QED, what would the ratio of gold finds likely be?

If it is used in thrashed areas that have had combinations of detectors and coils pass over it, will it find missed nuggets? If so, what would the mean time between nugget finds very roughly be?



Addressed to Bugs or Doug .... BUT

In my view it would be total guesswork (ie meaningless) to make such a guess / estimate at this stage. Maybe after years of testing one could make such a guess if the operator was the same. The results would also depend on the experience of the operator & many other variables eg coils settings etc. Thats my view. Doug & Bugs' may be different.

Yes Grelourie, not visible to all for good reason. Comparisons HAVE been made of target response (small to large) between a QED 12" NF EVO coil, a GPX4500 ENHANCE 12" NF EVO coil and a  SDC2300 std 8" coil.

...... as well as a QED with 12" NF EVO coil, a Garrett ATX with std coil and a Garrett AT Gold (VLF)

Of course the QED excelled but its up to Bugs to show these graphs IF & WHEN he wishes

 ::62::



Thanks Huego, you answered all the questions perfectly.
A 6" or 8" mono would be perfect for women, kids and the frail.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 7 2016 06:31:07 AEDT AM
Comparative test results gathered since April 2016.
The test distances are in Inches.
The AL* test pieces are all 3mm thick except the AL block.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Wednesday December 7 2016 07:40:05 AEDT AM
Quote
Comparative test results gathered since April 2016
Thanks,

Were these tests done with the target on the ground and the coil waved above it ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Wednesday December 7 2016 08:07:36 AEDT AM
hi bugs , placed an order/sent email for one , with goldsearch ,
but have heard nothing not even a conformation of order
would be nice to know were in the line i am
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 7 2016 08:15:19 AEDT AM
  
Comparative test results gathered since April 2016.
The test distances are in Inches.
The AL* test pieces are all 3mm thick except the AL block.

Detector GB'd, targets sitting on ground and coil swung above it.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 7 2016 09:09:39 AEDT AM
  
hi bugs , placed an order/sent email for one , with goldsearch ,
but have heard nothing not even a conformation of order
would be nice to know were in the line i am
cheers red
As advised earlier, Dean has been on leave and is back in the shop today.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Wednesday December 7 2016 09:37:16 AEDT AM
thanks bugs , did not know that
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Wednesday December 7 2016 11:19:13 AEDT AM
Thanks for table BugWiskers (which members like me saw some time ago).

However, I assume that by now there has been more field testing that indicates roughly how often the QED finds gold in previously detected well-known gold fields and what size etc? (The table suggest "most sizes fairly frequently?")

Any idea when http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/ will have more on the QED. I wait in eager anticipation!

Again well done and thanks!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 11:40:40 AEDT AM
Thanks Bugs,

Thats very helpful wrt performance & comparing sensitivity.  Its what many were calling for. It puts these detectors in some perspective.

The military grade F1A4M3 is a non standard (modified) version too I understand?

Another category showing MD PRICE and WEIGHT (as tested) would be helpful… or GR could enjoy filling in these 2 critical factors himslef & show Finders members after printing the chart off.

EMI resistance of the QED from what I have seen is exceptional.

We keenly await news from Goldsearch on other details eg warranty, chargers, pricing ... and waiting time.
Aziz, if he were watching this, could pay for his beer (after a few days helping you mount components on QED boards to meet the high demand  ::620::)

 ::62::

Mole? what mole Doug!
http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/new-board-109/sack-the-mole!/


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 12:12:18 AEDT PM
  

However, I assume that by now there has been more field testing that indicates roughly how often the QED finds gold in previously detected well-known gold fields and what size etc? (The table suggest "most sizes fairly frequently?")


More field testing? How often? Thats depends on how many QEDs have been out there working old fields & where they have been looking doesnt it?
Bugs has been exceedingly busy focussing on this targeted release date and its implications, not gathering marketing data.

"What the table suggests" is what the likely result will be, if averaged out over a large number of units sold & used.
What gold was missed in old gold fields by others is not ncessarily an indication of a new detectors performance …. holes in sensitivity (adjustable in design), depth performance to deep targets, ground noise, timings selected, target size / shape / surface area, position & experience ... ALL can determine what is found ...or what is missed ie still buried!

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 7 2016 13:08:01 AEDT PM
Dean at Goldsearch Australia and asked me to thank the people who have lodged email info requests but he has no chance of answering them all. Therefore, he is spending his time adding info to the site that should answer most of the questions.


Title: QED Comparison
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 13:31:59 AEDT PM
Without cherry picking some analysis from the chart for the QED Marketing Dept  ::419::

Comparing brands models & giving the 243* aggregate score as 100% to the GPX 5000, the industry PI standard, the following shows a comparison as a %

(* Using Aggregate Scores, all round score on small - large metal targets in air tests)

Aggregate       Model             Score       Comments
Score*                              (rel. to GPX 5000)

157                2300                   64%      lower cost, easy to use standard for smaller gold
163                 ATX                    67%      US made PI standard, affordable

226         GPX 4500 (12” EVO)    93%      the PI target for GR & critics
232         GPZ 7000 (14”)           95%      "the disappointer" BUT may offer some advantages
241         QED (12” EVO)            99%   Aust made challenger: most affordable, lightweight & good performer
243         GPX 5000 (12” EVO)    100%    the industry PI performance standard, good all rounder

260         F1A4M3 (12” EVO)       107%   excels all round esp. on depth

* on 17 metal (mostly standardised ie reproduceable) targets (v. small - large, gold, coin alloys & aluminium)

 ::62::

PS: ....detects 30% deeper than 'some' other detectors" (Larry, breaking into a company's 'Marketing Spin' file   ::620::)... which ones Larry? More accurate to say ... "QED goes as deep as the top 10% of all PI detectors!"

More: Poor Larry, former retired capitalist (bank manager), is called a "Wally" socialist lefty by Robby who is on a verbal rampage because a market leader's ethics are brought to account (exposed). Robby has the QED all worked out "I already have enough info to figure out how it will pan out so I'll leave the aimless wandering to you and those that blindly believe he has something." (Robby on Larry & The QED) ... I'm sure we havent given THAT much away  
 ::620:: ::620:: ... after all its all about making a profit isn't it?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: WM6 on Wednesday December 7 2016 18:09:11 AEDT PM
  
Comparative test results gathered since April 2016.
The test distances are in Inches.
The AL* test pieces are all 3mm thick except the AL block.

Nice table, BW .... except:   \|/

Seems you forgot to switch-ON both: [+40%] and [+30%] switches on GPZ7000, or you didn't do proper GB using yellow ferrite ring?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 18:34:24 AEDT PM
  
  
Comparative test results gathered since April 2016.
The test distances are in Inches.
The AL* test pieces are all 3mm thick except the AL block.

Seems you forgot to switch-ON both:[+40%] and [+30%] switches  on GPZ7000, or you didn't do proper GB using yellow ferrite ring?


Are you saying there are "switches" to SELECT the preferred depth increase for the 7000?
Wow!   ::10 :: ::620::

Are they wired to anything? Eg to a Bank Account?  ::10 ::

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: egixe4 on Wednesday December 7 2016 19:27:26 AEDT PM
  
  
  
Comparative test results gathered since April 2016.
The test distances are in Inches.
The AL* test pieces are all 3mm thick except the AL block.

Seems you forgot to switch-ON both:[+40%] and [+30%] switches  on GPZ7000, or you didn't do proper GB using yellow ferrite ring?






Are you saying there are "switches" to SELECT the preferred depth increase for the 7000?
Wow!   ::10 :: ::620::

Are they wired to anything? Eg to a Bank Account?  ::10 ::

 ::62::

Good one WM6  ::620::

Huego,
 
Your almost right, both switches are disabled in software, you need to swipe your credit card to enable the 30% and 40% options
It's called "We change peoples fortunes" **

** we take the fortune from your bank and put it in our bank.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 19:40:28 AEDT PM
  

Huego,
 
Your almost right, both switches are disabled in software, you need to swipe your credit card to enable the 30% and 40% options ...... It's called "We change peoples fortunes" **

** we take the fortune from your bank and put it in our bank.



Thanks ixe4!

I wondered what the notation on the "disable control" switch "WCPF"  stood for.  ::620::

ML would tell prospectors that their shareholders are to blame ... they are so demanding! They must make a profit for everyone*, in part to pay shareholders, managers, patent & defense lawyers, etc etc ... there are SO MANY EXPENSES even when the products are produced off shore.  ::419::

* the more profit, the more tax they pay (usually) ... thats good for everyone eh?

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Marge on Wednesday December 7 2016 20:51:28 AEDT PM
Hi Bugwhiskers congratulation's on completion of the QED I am not a super expert in detecting bot have been doing it for 20 or more years, so I feel I know enough to say your testing (  Detector GB'd, targets sitting on ground and coil swung above it.)is a really a waste of time as no one finds gold or any metal on top of the ground waving a detector over it, sorry but that is the hard truth.
Good luck hope it works out for you  ::402::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Wednesday December 7 2016 20:55:47 AEDT PM
marge ,marge ,marge
i own an minelab sdc2300
and it finds metal lead and gold on the surface
 cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Wednesday December 7 2016 21:28:24 AEDT PM
Have found several "sunbakers" Marge .... just saying


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 7 2016 21:56:07 AEDT PM
  
Hi Bugwhiskers congratulation's on completion of the QED I am not a super expert in detecting bot have been doing it for 20 or more years, so I feel I know enough to say your testing (  Detector GB'd, targets sitting on ground and coil swung above it.)is a really a waste of time as no one finds gold or any metal on top of the ground waving a detector over it, sorry but that is the hard truth.
Good luck hope it works out for you  ::402::

The QED has found has found virgin gold and specimens in undisturbed Vic GF ground.It also has been tested on gold nuggets at some test sites where the QED has to detect these though a ground matrix. There are  some  utube videos of some past (very early) prototypes doing exactly this and compared to a 5000  in enhance or fine gold. Their is absolutely NO doubt that the QED can and will detect buried gold in  Vic GF's!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 22:15:52 AEDT PM
QUESTIONS:  Adapted & arranged from a ML user / ML believer (but QED doubter) on another forum who prefers to believe the advertising claims of 30% + all the other + x%  + y% for past models. Buyer beware indeed!!   FFS!

Is the QED proven or real?
Unreal (too good to be true) for you maybe, so take it or leave it, who cares, you may miss out, one sale is neither here or there. Others may benefit from your loss

"For years the QED has been promised to be the next best thing and has had set back after set back promise after promise.”
(not worthy of a response...development, while fighting agressors, takes time & energy)

Now it's finally being released l cannot find any actual facts?
(not worthy of a response, he hasen’t looked here... oh now he has and wants more gold used! Duh! )

What proven performance stats or videos from independant (from ML) testers?
Accept it or not, the comparison shown, done in presence of others, even devoted ML owners. Its an easy way to compare detectors on many targets in one place while controlling many variables

Have any claims eg performance tests been been proven or verified.
More proof & verification will follow with gold finds (good & bad)

Are QED prices good value (ie better than “realistic”)?
Depends what you compare it to …. a 7000? a 19” coil , a 5000? what? Looks outstanding value to me!

Is the QED a "quality product” :
The maker can answer that, I believe so from what I have seen.

Can it "out-perform the opposistion by a country mile” :
Depends. Look at the comparison then take it or leave it, or forget it.

"Only Promises that it has found gold.”  (What how when where depth has not be stated or proven?):
Doug has answered that. He does not lie. You may or may not believe it … it doesnt matter, its a metal detector (see above) … time will show evidence from gold others find, that you miss. ::419::

How financial is/are the producers of the QED in relation to returns or faults under warranty?
I am not sure if they (manufacturer / dealer) have insurance (imagine they do), or if they have bought tickets to a TAX haven  ::402::

If a full recall & refund is required (due to the QED not performing as stated or being just completely a total dud) would we get our money back?
A full recall because its "a dud" or not performing is most unlikely. Make sure you understand any claims for performance that are made so you are NOT misled.  (I 've seen NO advertising or performance claims or promises yet.)

Do ML have insurance cover on their IP or their designer? .(.. "if he goes under a bus, the're stuffed" quoting Reg) Hmmmm?

 ::62::

PS: These are my answers, not Bugs, based on my understanding of the QED


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 7 2016 22:32:22 AEDT PM
 Its also worth noting that the TDI pro which another poster on finders ("barratrooper1") quite liked is now I am told no longer available, only a cheaper cut down version. BW  is confident that the QED will beat the TDI for sensitivity and depth and handle the ground just as well.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 7 2016 22:35:02 AEDT PM
  
  
Hi Bugwhiskers congratulation's on completion of the QED I am not a super expert in detecting bot have been doing it for 20 or more years, so I feel I know enough to say your testing (  Detector GB'd, targets sitting on ground and coil swung above it.)is a really a waste of time as no one finds gold or any metal on top of the ground waving a detector over it, sorry but that is the hard truth.
Good luck hope it works out for you  ::402::

The QED has found has found virgin gold and specimens in undisturbed Vic GF ground.It also has been tested on gold nuggets at some test sites where the QED has to detect these though a ground matrix. There are  some  utube videos of some past (very early) prototypes doing exactly this and compared to a 5000  in enhance or fine gold. Their is absolutely NO doubt that the QED can and will detect buried gold in  Vic GF's!
doug
::419::

They come outa the woodwork with a red herring when least expected hey DOUG?  ::620::

Its amazing how some can't or refuse to understand that this test was NOT a "gold finding" excercise but an easy way to compare detectors performance against many targets (all metal, like solid gold nuggets are). Its a detector comparison! Not ideal but its a relatively quick & easy once set up on gold bearing ground.
Removing as many variables as possible is good scientific practice when testing products.

As Doug said, in-ground testing (at test sites / gullies) has also been done a number of times. Buryiing these targets underground could also have been done but to little advantage & much more work. Aggregate numbers would have been different, scaled down. So little benefit.

 ::62::

Even a QED defender has to eat & rest!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Wednesday December 7 2016 23:22:54 AEDT PM
Doug, Im barratrooper1. For some reason, this site wouldnt let me use that name, dosnt matter.
what I liked about the TDI pro, was the internal battery and speaker, it was light, and a pretty good detetctor, but really lacked depth, and just didnt "see" a lot of gold. What im excited about the QED, is the internal battery, don, t know if it has an internal speaker, I hope so, but I can live with it if it dosn, t.
I really want one these QED, s and I don, t care about other peoples opinions or speculation, chest thumping or what ever at this stage, im getting one asap. Im based in Darwin, and look forward to giving you guys feed back from up this way, as Im sure Gef will to.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Thursday December 8 2016 00:08:03 AEDT AM
I expect that understanding its settings will be the challenge and key to its success.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 8 2016 05:48:16 AEDT AM
The link to my YouTube videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bugwhiskers


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Prospector_Al on Thursday December 8 2016 08:32:29 AEDT AM
  
The link to my YouTube videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bugwhiskers


Hi BW,  You have demonstrated an incredible amount of determination and persistence--you deserve to be rewarded greatly for this effort.  Congratulations!

Prospector_Al


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 8 2016 11:22:11 AEDT AM
  
  
The link to my YouTube videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bugwhiskers


Hi BW,  You have demonstrated an incredible amount of determination and persistence--you deserve to be rewarded greatly for this effort.  Congratulations!

Prospector_Al
Thanks Al, much appreciated.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Thursday December 8 2016 12:56:52 AEDT PM
hi all , im having trouble in finding the QED on goldsearch site
has anyone been able to find the QED add ,
need help
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 8 2016 13:08:35 AEDT PM
  
Doug, Im barratrooper1. For some reason, this site wouldnt let me use that name, dosnt matter.
what I liked about the TDI pro, was the internal battery and speaker, it was light, and a pretty good detetctor, but really lacked depth, and just didnt "see" a lot of gold. What im excited about the QED, is the internal battery, don, t know if it has an internal speaker, I hope so, but I can live with it if it dosn, t.
I really want one these QED, s and I don, t care about other peoples opinions or speculation, chest thumping or what ever at this stage, im getting one asap. Im based in Darwin, and look forward to giving you guys feed back from up this way, as Im sure Gef will to.
The QED is quite different in a few areas to other detectors.
Firstly, the Earth Field cancellation is user adjustable.
The threshold adjustment is also very different.
Ground Balance is about creating a null for the ground. This is achieved by using an electronic equivalent of an old fashioned balance beam or scales. This was used by Eric Foster while hand held PI detectors were in still in their infancy. When the signal from the ground is broken up and put on different sides of the balance beam then the ground is nulled or cancelled. There are certain targets that have a characteristic or Time Constant that are similar to the ground and the response to them will be greatly diminished. These targets fall into what is called the "Detection Hole". The function on the QED called BIAS is used to raise the signal that is either side of the detection hole. An OZ 5 cent piece is on one side of the "hole" and the OZ $2 coin is on the other side. Understanding how the null works and it's adjustment is very beneficial to get the best out of the QED particularly for very small nuggets.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 8 2016 13:10:22 AEDT PM
  
hi all , im having trouble in finding the QED on goldsearch site
has anyone been able to find the QED add ,
need help
cheers red
Dean is very busy updating the site.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Thursday December 8 2016 15:25:39 AEDT PM
Poor Dean he must be stressing out  :-)


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: WM6 on Thursday December 8 2016 19:06:06 AEDT PM
  
Poor Dean he must be stressing out  :-)

Especially when he got some consulting help from ML web designers.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Tathradj on Thursday December 8 2016 19:38:37 AEDT PM
Stunning answer Cobber.
                                       I have a lay mans knowledge of basic electronics. LOL
May I ask, What frequency does the QED run on. ?
You may PM me if you wish. :) :)
Every one must understand what Eric had back in those days with cumbersome boards etc, etc. But these days we have small programmed chips that far out do what back then would boggle the human mind. I am not a nay sayer in any way and also except that some times something comes along that is " New " but based on old technology that these days which has been reinvented with the simple processing power we have.
I seen the hole effect and the magnetic field comments you have. The Black Hole above a metallic target with all variables included has me very, very intrigued. :) :)
So the circuit can see what wave form exists each side of a null point. :) :)
That is Nano Seconds stuff.
Well Done Cobber. :) :) :)
 

  
  
Doug, Im barratrooper1. For some reason, this site wouldnt let me use that name, dosnt matter.
what I liked about the TDI pro, was the internal battery and speaker, it was light, and a pretty good detetctor, but really lacked depth, and just didnt "see" a lot of gold. What im excited about the QED, is the internal battery, don, t know if it has an internal speaker, I hope so, but I can live with it if it dosn, t.
I really want one these QED, s and I don, t care about other peoples opinions or speculation, chest thumping or what ever at this stage, im getting one asap. Im based in Darwin, and look forward to giving you guys feed back from up this way, as Im sure Gef will to.
The QED is quite different in a few areas to other detectors.
Firstly, the Earth Field cancellation is user adjustable.
The threshold adjustment is also very different.
Ground Balance is about creating a null for the ground. This is achieved by using an electronic equivalent of an old fashioned balance beam or scales. This was used by Eric Foster while hand held PI detectors were in still in their infancy. When the signal from the ground is broken up and put on different sides of the balance beam then the ground is nulled or cancelled. There are certain targets that have a characteristic or Time Constant that are similar to the ground and the response to them will be greatly diminished. These targets fall into what is called the "Detection Hole". The function on the QED called BIAS is used to raise the signal that is either side of the detection hole. An OZ 5 cent piece is on one side of the "hole" and the OZ $2 coin is on the other side. Understanding how the null works and it's adjustment is very beneficial to get the best out of the QED particularly for very small nuggets.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 8 2016 20:09:43 AEDT PM
The cycle time is no big secret, 1.2KHz. It's evenly divisible by 50 & 60 so the patented Synchronous Mains Rejection works with a change of just one number in the firmware.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Saturday December 10 2016 08:54:45 AEDT AM
hi bugs , any chance of getting a post of the qed manual
at least we can get a heads up on controls  ::10 ::
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Saturday December 10 2016 10:37:17 AEDT AM
AT LAST .... the QED has LANDED as a NEW PRODUCT announced on Goldsearch and for sale ....


QED (Complete)
$1,800.00

Designed & manufactured in Australia.
Large range of optional search coils.
Backlit display, Manual Ground Balance, Simple power on / off.
Superb EMI immunity & Unparalleled Earth Field cancellation.


see: http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/our-products/new-products.html

 ::62::

PS: I expect more info will be posted soon eg on the "user manual" etc

"AVAILABLE SOON"


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Saturday December 10 2016 10:39:48 AEDT AM
hi all , found the add at goldsearch
 just go to goldsearch web site then click on,our products menu, then new products menu,
 and bingo QED is on the list  ::10 ::
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Saturday December 10 2016 12:47:02 AEDT PM
Great news, congrats!
Can anyone tell me if it has an internal speaker?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Saturday December 10 2016 14:50:27 AEDT PM
  

Great news, congrats!
Can anyone tell me if it has an internal speaker?


Hi Dave / BT:

I dont think it has. The phone jack output could be used for a speaker I guess.

Bugs can confirm that.

Huego


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Saturday December 10 2016 14:56:43 AEDT PM
No worries, will look at putting one of the minelab kits on it, lol! Hasn't been released yet, but should work great. Nice light unit, internal battery, wireless speaker/phones....should be perfect.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: IBGold on Saturday December 10 2016 17:00:51 AEDT PM
  
No worries, will look at putting one of the minelab kits on it, lol! Hasn't been released yet, but should work great. Nice light unit, internal battery, wireless speaker/phones....should be perfect.

Hi all,

I have not talked about the QED for obvious reasons but now can congratulate Howard on everything finally coming to fruition I have been involved in testing ETC. for a few years and can confirm it does find gold and is in my opinion equal to a GPX 5000 in most cases and better in some cases it is excellent with  Wi-Fi head phones I use TDK WR700 and they are plug and play and work a treat those who were brought  up with manual G.B will find it easy to G.B others will soon get the hang of it, the two most important controls are the Bias and the Volume settings but once you get the hang of it it is intuitive I have had it on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED,  Davent talk to Buggs about a speaker he should be able to put you in touch with a supplier as he has one that plugs straight in I have one here but I have only just returned from W.A so when I have unpacked I will find the box and give you its name and model number.

Regards, Ian. ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Saturday December 10 2016 17:37:51 AEDT PM
Good onya Ian, look forward to getting hold of the QED, will run headphones until I get a wireless set up, 1st things 1st.
There are patches of ground up here where I can't ground balance my 4500, and other areas where its pretty hot, can't get out of enhance anywhere, and sometimes need to drop gain as low as 5, stabiliser down to 7, and even then, have beeps and squeeks through the threshold. If I can run a smooth threshold and a high gain with an evo coil where I go, Ii reckon the QED will kill it.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Saturday December 10 2016 22:17:51 AEDT PM
Quote
gain as low as 5, stabiliser down to 7


If you have the gain at 5 have you tried the stab at 3 ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Saturday December 10 2016 23:16:28 AEDT PM
Tried heaps of different settings, try and keep the stab as high a number as I can, on a great day, I can have gain up to 8 and stab 11, average day, gain 7  stab 9, as the day goes into late afternoon, it starts to get worse.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Saturday December 10 2016 23:18:33 AEDT PM
Will flog the QED hard until I start to understand it, but I'm thinking it will handle my conditions better than my 4500, which should lead to better performance.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Sunday December 11 2016 11:13:00 AEDT AM
  

Hi all,

I have not talked about the QED for obvious reasons but now can congratulate Howard on everything finally coming to fruition. I have been involved in testing... for a few years and can confirm it does find gold and is in my opinion equal to a GPX 5000 in most cases and better in some cases it is excellent with  Wi-Fi head phones I use TDK WR700 and they are plug and play and work a treat. Those who were brought  up with manual G.B will find it easy to G.B others will soon get the hang of it, the two most important controls are the Bias and the Volume settings but once you get the hang of it it is intuitive. I have had it on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED,  ....

Regards, Ian. ::62::



Thanks for your report Ian & for your many years of QED testing and feedback.

if its "as good or better than a 5000" it will have achieved its long-term goal, kicking the "nay sayers” and critics between their goal posts. Ouch!

More reports I expect will follow in due course as the critics are just itchin' to find something to fault.

If it falls short on some occassions, in comparison with PIs costing many thousands more, that is also OK as it excel in its many other features. The ease of use & affordability without a "gold tax" is a BIG positive. Its ability to ground balance on noisy ground & monitor changes in mineralisation (iron content oft associated with gold) as you describe is a good thing even if annoying sometimes, requiring frequent GBing.

I will defintely get the cordless phones as cords are a big annoyance to me.

Cheers and thanks again Ian  ::419::

Huego   ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Sunday December 11 2016 17:40:55 AEDT PM
Are there any vacancies open for assemblers and packers ? I expect initial response from the public has been overwhelming, to put it mildly..


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday December 11 2016 18:53:45 AEDT PM
  
Are there any vacancies open for assemblers and packers ? I expect initial response from the public has been overwhelming, to put it mildly..


Guess what I will be doing over Christmas.... soldering !


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Sunday December 11 2016 20:25:42 AEDT PM
  
  
Are there any vacancies open for assemblers and packers ? I expect initial response from the public has been overwhelming, to put it mildly..


Guess what I will be doing over Christmas.... soldering !

Get a big fan. lol  ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Sunday December 11 2016 21:16:12 AEDT PM
Thanks for the report Ian .. Will be interesting to go over old ground and give a swing with this little beasty...Guess ur bottom shelfing your 2000M.
 A wireless setup seems the go as suggested Huego. Bugs you may need some of Santa's little helpers .. Hate to think of your work load. Oh well it shouldnt be long now then...... ::05:: ::05::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Fishrover on Sunday December 11 2016 21:17:43 AEDT PM
  
  
  
Are there any vacancies open for assemblers and packers ? I expect initial response from the public has been overwhelming, to put it mildly..


Guess what I will be doing over Christmas.... soldering !

Get a big fan. lol  ::62::
It doesn't get that hot in Ballarat, ... even at Christmas time !
Congratulations Bugs, it's been a long haul but you made it.

Cheers,
F


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Sunday December 11 2016 23:03:26 AEDT PM
Firstly congratulations to myself ( I'm not banned - surprised ) .. Secondly congratulations to BW for finally making it over the line.

Further with no disrespect I would like to question the published target data for the GPZ7000 which is listed at around 13.5 / 15 inches for the AUD $2 / $1 coin. The GPZ7000 detects a $2 coin at 19 inches and the $1 coin at 21 inches. The ranges published earlier would seem to be for a detector set to factory default ... which is very conservative.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Monday December 12 2016 02:43:37 AEDT AM
  
  
  
  
Are there any vacancies open for assemblers and packers ? I expect initial response from the public has been overwhelming, to put it mildly..


Guess what I will be doing over Christmas.... soldering !

Get a big fan. lol  ::62::


It doesn't get that hot in Ballarat, ... even at Christmas time !
Congratulations Bugs, it's been a long haul but you made it.

Cheers,
F

For the fumes from soldering.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Monday December 12 2016 06:58:02 AEDT AM
Thanks for the report IB Gold. May I enquire as to where the “70% iron” area was please?


Bugwiskers: Heaps of soldering = lots of orders though! Happy Christmas!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Monday December 12 2016 11:07:20 AEDT AM
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 13:05:29 AEDT PM
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEbSLeyfw3c

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 12 2016 13:12:45 AEDT PM
  
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/wa

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.

So you have abandoned your detector projects it seems?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 13:15:09 AEDT PM
  
  
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/wa

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.

So you have abandoned your detector projects it seems?
doug ::419::

check Geotech ... its public but still has patents ;-)


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 12 2016 13:17:18 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/wa

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.

So you have abandoned your detector projects it seems?
doug ::419::

check Geotech ... its public but still has patents ;-)

Can't see it on Geotech as I am still banned there!!!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 12 2016 13:26:41 AEDT PM
  
I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.
Much of vic  GF ground requires that the gpx be run in smooth timings  with mono coils.We know that for a range of targets with long Tc (including some  nuggets!) this can result  in depth losses compared to non smooth timings of up to 40%. So you are probably only getting back the depth lost by Gpx's run in smooth timings!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 13:29:23 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/wa

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.

So you have abandoned your detector projects it seems?
doug ::419::

check Geotech ... its public but still has patents ;-)

Can't see it on Geotech as I am still banned there!!!
doug ::419::
Ok ... here it is ...

There are three new features ...

1. Power recycling TX pulse.
2. Low Q damping method.
3. Noise / EF  cancellation.

The fourth feature .. ground balance is not shown however it can  be deduced from the cct .

This is an informational disclosure - patent(s) applicable.



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 12 2016 13:42:07 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
  
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/wa

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.

So you have abandoned your detector projects it seems?
doug ::419::

check Geotech ... its public but still has patents ;-)

Can't see it on Geotech as I am still banned there!!!
doug ::419::
Ok ... here it is ...

There are three new features ...

1. Power recycling TX pulse.
2. Low Q damping method.
3. Noise / EF  cancellation.

The fourth feature .. ground balance is not shown however it can  be deduced from the cct .

This is an informational disclosure - patent(s) applicable.



Is it going to be  commercialized?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 13:48:09 AEDT PM
  
  
I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.
Much of vic  GF ground requires that the gpx be run in smooth timings  with mono coils.We know that for a range of targets with long Tc (including some  nuggets!) this can result  in depth losses compared to non smooth timings of up to 40%. So you are probably only getting back the depth lost by Gpx's run in smooth timings!
doug ::419::

So does that mean the target test data for the GPX is 40% out also ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 13:51:51 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Looking at test results again …. What does "DIFF / HY" stand for in the 7000 settings? …. Differential & High Yield?
I assume the proud 7000 owner / user set up conditions that were optimal for the 7000, for test objects sitting on that (hot?) ground

Maybe in a horizontal air test (not on-ground) all the MDs would do better? Maybe 30-40% better!!  ::10 ::

As I cant be sure of test conditions used in MD comparo, Bugs is best answering that if he wishes. But I can make LIGHT HUMOUR of it .. but always with a touch of reality!  ::419::

As WM6 suggested there are switches for 30% & 40% turbo boost to detection in some detectors (made by marketing depts). Now massage the figures with these two boost modes. With no disrespect to Moodz, is it a conicidence that a 30% improvement & 40% turbo boost to stated figure for 7000 at test site for 2 coins on goldfield ground give:

   13.5" + 30% =17.5”    (19”? by Moodz)
   15    + 30% = 19.5”    (21”? by Moodz)


   13.5" + 40% = 19” (19”) spot on with what Moodz claims he can get in air tests
   15"    + 40% = 21” (21”) spot on again! Isnt that a co-incidence?

I wonder what the QED - PL “turbo" can provide in same circumstances if the two promotional figures of "30% & 40% better” were applied and switched on?

 ::62::


Hi Huego ... yes it is somewhat coincidental that the figures I measured are about 40% better than the factory defaults ... however the proof is always in the pudding or the digging in this case.

Here is a quick and dirty video on the matter .... this has been confirmed on a number of GPZs BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/wa

The factory default settings were probably set so the detector did not overload when it was first fired up after unpacking ( eg in the lounge inside your house ). However in the bush this default effectively reduces sensitivity alot.

I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.

So you have abandoned your detector projects it seems?
doug ::419::

check Geotech ... its public but still has patents ;-)

Can't see it on Geotech as I am still banned there!!!
doug ::419::
Ok ... here it is ...

There are three new features ...

1. Power recycling TX pulse.
2. Low Q damping method.
3. Noise / EF  cancellation.

The fourth feature .. ground balance is not shown however it can  be deduced from the cct .

This is an informational disclosure - patent(s) applicable.



Is it going to be  commercialized?
doug ::419::

The IP is for sale  ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 12 2016 13:54:17 AEDT PM
  
  
  
I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.
Much of vic  GF ground requires that the gpx be run in smooth timings  with mono coils.We know that for a range of targets with long Tc (including some  nuggets!) this can result  in depth losses compared to non smooth timings of up to 40%. So you are probably only getting back the depth lost by Gpx's run in smooth timings!
doug ::419::

So does that mean the target test data for the GPX is 40% out also ?

No! its the GB method used!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 14:00:44 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.
Much of vic  GF ground requires that the gpx be run in smooth timings  with mono coils.We know that for a range of targets with long Tc (including some  nuggets!) this can result  in depth losses compared to non smooth timings of up to 40%. So you are probably only getting back the depth lost by Gpx's run in smooth timings!
doug ::419::

So does that mean the target test data for the GPX is 40% out also ?

No! its the GB method used!
doug ::419::
It still does not explain the anomalous results for the GPZ on the $1 and $2 coins ... the GPZ is simply not that bad on any ground  ( except maybe wet salty clay )     These results are very bad and point to a user error or faulty detector.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 12 2016 14:17:35 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
  
I am digging up alot of targets at depth  in ground that has been well gone over by GPXs with 20 inch coils. The digging and the weight of the GPZ are not for  the light hearted prospector.
Much of vic  GF ground requires that the gpx be run in smooth timings  with mono coils.We know that for a range of targets with long Tc (including some  nuggets!) this can result  in depth losses compared to non smooth timings of up to 40%. So you are probably only getting back the depth lost by Gpx's run in smooth timings!
doug ::419::

So does that mean the target test data for the GPX is 40% out also ?

No! its the GB method used!
doug ::419::
It still does not explain the anomalous results for the GPZ on the $1 and $2 coins ... the GPZ is simply not that bad on any ground  ( except maybe wet salty clay )     These results are very bad and point to a user error or faulty detector.

I was referring to the GPX smooth GB method not the SAD7000 GB method. Maybe their are more faulty coils or SAD 7000"s than we think?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Monday December 12 2016 15:33:18 AEDT PM
I have kept quiet about the tests results so far because I did not wish to rock a boat full of happy forum members, and hopefully who will continue to be happy when they can test the QED for themselves.

However, it would be amiss not to say….

when the table was listed, several friends from different locations in Aus & I were immediately surprised at the results, and upon checking with “repeatable” $1 and $2, got independently the same results as each other with the 7k using HY Difficult (Al plates not tested). Our depths were significantly more than those indicated in the table provided here. I will leave it at that, and suggest to others to do your own more comprehensive testing.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Monday December 12 2016 15:57:12 AEDT PM
Maybe the GPZ used for the results in the table here was one of the bad ones like what happened on another forum with a GPZ that was well below what it should have achieved in an air test on a 5c coin that ML apparently said it should achieve in air test on a 5c coin with a GPZ and its 14" DOD.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 12 2016 16:48:43 AEDT PM
Members please note that this return by Moodz to the forum is after quite a long absence. One of his last posts before he vanished was a "Legal Threat" directed at me. He has now returned and is trying to hijack this thread which is about the launch of the QED by turning it into a marketing exercise for the GPZ7000.  If he has any connection with Minelab whatsoever he should disclose it.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 17:50:37 AEDT PM
  
Members please note that this return by Moodz to the forum is after quite a long absence. One of his last posts before he vanished was a "Legal Threat" directed at me. He has now returned and is trying to hijack this thread which is about the launch of the QED by turning it into a marketing exercise for the GPZ7000.  If he has any connection with Minelab whatsoever he should disclose it.

I have only questioned the validity of the test results for the GPZ ( which is ON topic ) in the comparison chart. This is on the basis of my own ( and apparently others ) knowledge regarding what this result should be.

Any invasion of a members right to privacy is contemptible. I dont enquire nor am interested in anyones associations commercial / religious or otherwise .... but just for your own edification 1. I sell IP that I generate ( ie make ) to anyone who will buy it.   2. Companies buy or licence IP from people/companies who make it and generally they provide some compensation for that.
That does not mean that a permanent or any association is formed between the supplier and the reciever other than the event itself. You join the dots.

But just in case that is not clear I DONT have any current association with ML.



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 12 2016 18:51:22 AEDT PM
Moodz, the early question was an easy one. Now for a harder question. Did you buy or do you own the GPZ7000 in the video. I don't see anybody else present at the test and you must surely have more than a beginners experience to set it up to get the results shown.
How about you start your own thread instead of trying to hijack this one for your own agenda.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: moodz on Monday December 12 2016 20:25:55 AEDT PM
The ownership of GPZs or anything else for that matter is definitely off topic here. As for the tests they are definitely ON topic as the given values for the GPZ are not representative of the correct sensitivity. In the interests of truth and the integrity / impartiality / objectivity of the test compiler the results should be retested or removed. How can anyone compare apples with apples. Its not going to hurt your product. Bang for Buck the QED will win.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 12 2016 21:37:11 AEDT PM
At least we can agree on the bang for buck.
Feel free to start another thread to keep the GPZ 7000 defense going.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday December 13 2016 09:54:12 AEDT AM
  
At least we can agree on the bang for buck.
Feel free to start another thread to keep the GPZ 7000 defense going.

The Moodz test results are flawed! Look very carefully at his video! Anyway the QED with a 14" mono coil will come very close to his claimed SAD7000 figures and I think would match  them with an 18" mono. And  the QED will do this with almost no interference from EM!
This thread is about the QED so any more posts about the SAD7000 will be moved.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Tuesday December 13 2016 09:57:54 AEDT AM
hi bugs , any chance of getting a look at the qed manual
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 13 2016 10:27:46 AEDT AM
  
hi bugs , any chance of getting a look at the qed manual
cheers red

It will appear on the Goldsearch site soon. Meanwhile I am happy to answer specific questions.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 13 2016 10:30:56 AEDT AM
  
  
At least we can agree on the bang for buck.
Feel free to start another thread to keep the GPZ 7000 defense going.

The Moodz test results are flawed! Look very carefully at his video! Anyway the QED with a 14" mono coil will come very close to his claimed SAD7000 figures and I think would match  them with an 18" mono. And  the QED will do this with almost no interference from EM!
This thread is about the QED so any more posts about the SAD7000 will be moved.
doug ::419::

A thread dedicated to GPZ7000 test results would be beneficial.
Consumers always like to know if they have a Stud or a Dud.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 14:10:31 AEDT PM
The attached pic shows the QED mounted with a 6 cell AA battery holder.
The reasons for the change are as follows.
It has been pointed out to me that the supply of potentially dangerous Lithium batteries is not a good idea for a fledgling Company. Sending detectors overseas that contain lithium batteries would also be problematic.  If individuals want to run the detector from Lithium batteries they of course can but they take full responsibility.
Info can be supplied on how to connect them.
As a result of this advice the QED will now be supplied with a 10 cell charger that is mains or car cigarette lighter socket powered. 12 rechargeable batteries and the battery holder fitted.
One set of 6 cells will last around 4 hours. Alkaline cells can also be used if required.
Another alternative is a battery box that is mounted to the rear of the detector handle that would also serve to counterbalance the weight of the coil.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 14 2016 14:28:38 AEDT PM
  
The attached pic shows the QED mounted with a 6 cell AA battery holder.
The reasons for the change are as follows.
It has been pointed out to me that the supply of potentially dangerous Lithium batteries is not a good idea for a fledgling Company. Sending detectors overseas that contain lithium batteries would also be problematic.  If individuals want to run the detector from Lithium batteries they of course can but they take full responsibility.
Info can be supplied on how to connect them.
As a result of this advice the QED will now be supplied with a 10 cell charger that is mains or car cigarette lighter socket powered. 12 rechargeable batteries and the battery holder fitted.
One set of 6 cells will last around 4 hours. Alkaline cells can also be used if required.
Another alternative is a battery box that is mounted to the rear of the detector handle that would also serve to counterbalance the weight of the coil.

Can Goldsearch supply a li ion battery pack and charger(mains/12 volt) if requested?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 14:42:59 AEDT PM
  
  
The attached pic shows the QED mounted with a 6 cell AA battery holder.
The reasons for the change are as follows.
It has been pointed out to me that the supply of potentially dangerous Lithium batteries is not a good idea for a fledgling Company. Sending detectors overseas that contain lithium batteries would also be problematic.  If individuals want to run the detector from Lithium batteries they of course can but they take full responsibility.
Info can be supplied on how to connect them.
As a result of this advice the QED will now be supplied with a 10 cell charger that is mains or car cigarette lighter socket powered. 12 rechargeable batteries and the battery holder fitted.
One set of 6 cells will last around 4 hours. Alkaline cells can also be used if required.
Another alternative is a battery box that is mounted to the rear of the detector handle that would also serve to counterbalance the weight of the coil.

Can Goldsearch supply a li ion battery pack and charger(mains/12 volt) if requested?
doug ::419::

Yes, but people fitting them do so at their own risk
The charger that will be supplied charges the cells individually avoiding the problems of charge imbalance as discussed in the link below.
This provides another strong case for the use of a cell holder rather than a "battery pack".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_balancing


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 14 2016 15:33:07 AEDT PM
  
  
  
The attached pic shows the QED mounted with a 6 cell AA battery holder.
The reasons for the change are as follows.
It has been pointed out to me that the supply of potentially dangerous Lithium batteries is not a good idea for a fledgling Company. Sending detectors overseas that contain lithium batteries would also be problematic.  If individuals want to run the detector from Lithium batteries they of course can but they take full responsibility.
Info can be supplied on how to connect them.
As a result of this advice the QED will now be supplied with a 10 cell charger that is mains or car cigarette lighter socket powered. 12 rechargeable batteries and the battery holder fitted.
One set of 6 cells will last around 4 hours. Alkaline cells can also be used if required.
Another alternative is a battery box that is mounted to the rear of the detector handle that would also serve to counterbalance the weight of the coil.

Can Goldsearch supply a li ion battery pack and charger(mains/12 volt) if requested?
doug ::419::

Yes, but people fitting them do so at their own risk
The charger that will be supplied charges the cells individually avoiding the problems of charge imbalance as discussed in the link below.
This provides another strong case for the use of a cell holder rather than a "battery pack".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_balancing

What chemistry are the 12 rechargeable batteries?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Wednesday December 14 2016 16:08:49 AEDT PM
Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) would be safer as what the SDC 2300 use except they use a "C" cell size.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 14 2016 16:14:07 AEDT PM
  
Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) would be safer as what the SDC2300 use except they use a "C" cell size.
I agree. but he only problem with them is their high discharge rate when not being used.They need to be kept  fully charged otherwise they have a shortened life.'
Enaloop batteries could be another possibility?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Wednesday December 14 2016 16:19:35 AEDT PM
  
  
Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) would be safer as what the SDC2300 use except they use a "C" cell size.
I agree. but he only problem with them is their high discharge rate when not being used.They need to be kept  fully charged otherwise they have a shortened life.'
Enaloop batteries could be another possibility?
doug ::419::

Okay did some research in regards to both types and their Self Discharge Rate.

NiMH retains 50 - 80% @ 6 months

Lithium retains 80% @ 15 years



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 16:23:08 AEDT PM
  
  
  
Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) would be safer as what the SDC2300 use except they use a "C" cell size.
I agree. but he only problem with them is their high discharge rate when not being used.They need to be kept  fully charged otherwise they have a shortened life.'
Enaloop batteries could be another possibility?
doug ::419::

Okay did some research in regards to both types and their Self Discharge Rate.

NiMH retains 50 - 80% @ 6 months

Lithium retains 80% @ 15 years



Only a problem if you detect once a month. Easy fix, charge before you set out.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 16:24:20 AEDT PM


What chemistry are the 12 rechargeable batteries?
doug ::419::
[/quote]

NiMH


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Wednesday December 14 2016 16:50:16 AEDT PM
OK, so I have already ordered a QED.
What will be supplied? I'm not really interested in a 4 hour operating pack. So I want the li ion pack, is that included in the 1800 I agreed to pay?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:00:34 AEDT PM
  
OK, so I have already ordered a QED.
What will be supplied? I'm not really interested in a 4 hour operating pack. So I want the li ion pack, is that included in the 1800 I agreed to pay?

I will talk to Dean and get back you you.
The new battery arrangement will give around 8 hours of detection time. Another 6 pack (by putting in fresh charged) will give 12 hours.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:24:52 AEDT PM
  
OK, so I have already ordered a QED.
What will be supplied? I'm not really interested in a 4 hour operating pack. So I want the li ion pack, is that included in the 1800 I agreed to pay?

The price is being revised down due to the change to NiMH batteries.
I suggest you call Dean tomorrow.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:42:57 AEDT PM
Personally i think any external batteries or external battery packs are a bad idea.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:48:14 AEDT PM
I agree Doug, one of the reasons the QED is attractive to me is getting away from external battery. What about a set up like the whites mxt as pack that fits internally?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:48:52 AEDT PM
Refer to the problems of battery charge balancing.
With a battery pack if one cell fails you throw the whole pack away. With individual cells the failed cell can be easily replaced.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:51:07 AEDT PM
  
Personally i think any external batteries or external battery packs are a bad idea.
doug ::419::

The new safer arrangement offers the same advantage in that the battery lead is very short and can't be caught on shrubbery.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 17:54:16 AEDT PM
The changes to powering of the detector have been made to decrease the risk factor.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 18:08:05 AEDT PM
  
I agree Doug, one of the reasons the QED is attractive to me is getting away from external battery. What about a set up like the whites mxt as pack that fits internally?

It will still have the problem of charge imbalance which shortens battery life.
If you are in the bush and your Li Ion battery fails it's a long miserable drive home.
With individual common AA cells a service station may have packs of AA Alkaline cells that will save your day.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Wednesday December 14 2016 18:15:42 AEDT PM
No, it is AA pack, that you load with disposable aa cells, or rechargables, that fits inside the battery well. I had one and it was a good set up. Dean should have the whites one.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 19:13:34 AEDT PM
  
No, it is AA pack, that you load with disposable aa cells, or rechargables, that fits inside the battery well. I had one and it was a good set up. Dean should have the whites one.

Check that out with Dean when you phone him tomorrow.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: WM6 on Wednesday December 14 2016 19:38:34 AEDT PM
  

The attached pic shows the QED mounted with a 6 cell AA battery holder.

One set of 6 cells will last around 4 hours. Alkaline cells can also be used if required.


This solution could be very handy for on terrain replacement.
Only need cells to be protected from fall out from holder, with some sort of elastic band or alike.

Todays 2400mAh AA NiMH cells are widely available.
Is QED power consumption 600mA to get 4 working hours?

Do we take from batteries one single voltage, in case of alkaline 9V?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 14 2016 20:06:44 AEDT PM
  
  

The attached pic shows the QED mounted with a 6 cell AA battery holder.

One set of 6 cells will last around 4 hours. Alkaline cells can also be used if required.


This solution could be very handy for on terrain replacement.
Only need cells to be protected from fall out from holder, with some sort of elastic band or alike.

Todays 2400mAh AA NiMH cells are widely available.
Is QED power consumption 600mA to get 4 working hours?

Do we take from batteries one single voltage, in case of alkaline 9V?

The cells claim 2350 mAH and the average current draw is 450mA
I am yet to find rechargeable batteries that live up to their ratings.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Wednesday December 14 2016 20:16:13 AEDT PM
Only battery that may fit ? would be the camera battery pack model BP-945 ..
but will have to be soldered in place and ye .. bit of mucking around ..
I use them on my machine 6.8Ah

the Enaloop batteries are a good suggestion Doug these are AA .. 2Ah I think

Ye the transportation of the Li batteries is the issue


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Alex on Wednesday December 14 2016 20:28:14 AEDT PM
congrats bw


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Wednesday December 14 2016 20:40:15 AEDT PM
Laptops and mob phones contain potentially dangerous Lithium batteries ... only samsung got it wrong  ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Thursday December 15 2016 02:32:20 AEDT AM
  
Only battery that may fit ? would be the camera battery pack model BP-945 ..
but will have to be soldered in place and ye .. bit of mucking around ..
I use them on my machine 6.8Ah

the Enaloop batteries are a good suggestion Doug these are AA .. 2Ah I think

Ye the transportation of the Li batteries is the issue
ow hard would it be to fit one of these gef? and i guess it would have to be removed to be charged?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Thursday December 15 2016 09:59:31 AEDT AM
Bugwhiskers, I placed an order some time ago, and am so keen to get the QED that I am happy to accept one without batteries with no responsibility for you not providing any. Will this be OK to get one without batteries now please? Just so long as I know the voltage I can take personal responsibility for the batteries and any fault created by me for connecting them. I know several others thinking the same way.

Thanks!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 15 2016 10:50:52 AEDT AM
  
Bugwhiskers, I placed an order some time ago, and am so keen to get the QED that I am happy to accept one without batteries with no responsibility for you not providing any. Will this be OK to get one without batteries now please? Just so long as I know the voltage I can take personal responsibility for the batteries and any fault created by me for connecting them. I know several others thinking the same way.

Thanks!


Please address all sales related enquiries to Dean at Goldsearch Australia.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Thursday December 15 2016 13:14:21 AEDT PM
Thanks for your prompt reply Bugwiskers.

Asked you directly because Dean will simply have to relay the request back to you anyway, and then get back with your response to me. Takes time and I will be in the gold fields soon for a couple of weeks & was hoping to use the QED during this trip, but time is of the essence in collecting a QED before leaving.

Again, thanks!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 15 2016 15:14:30 AEDT PM
  
Thanks for your prompt reply Bugwiskers.

Asked you directly because Dean will simply have to relay the request back to you anyway, and then get back with your response to me. Takes time and I will be in the gold fields soon for a couple of weeks & was hoping to use the QED during this trip, but time is of the essence in collecting a QED before leaving.

Again, thanks!


Which Goldfields are you going to detect?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: IBGold on Thursday December 15 2016 17:01:58 AEDT PM
Hi for those interested the speaker we have been using while testing the QED is a Nokia Mini Speaker Model MD-11 mounted on the shaft with an angle bracket I will try and draw up a template for the mount if that is OK by Bugg's but bear with me as I have just had the splint removed after hand reconstruction and am still a bit slow doing things.

As for battery,s Howard knows what I use and have for years with no problems but I do not have to worry about warranty or transport considerations and I use a Smart Balance Charger the Ni-MH AA's are a reasonable option rechargeable ones and a backup set of Alkaline ones.

Regards, Ian. ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 15 2016 17:58:54 AEDT PM
Hi Ian,

Thanks for that. I can get the shape router cut out of 1.6mm AL.
If the end is extended it can be bent at 90 and drilled for a bolt.
A crease in the bend will prevent fatigue.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 15 2016 18:14:12 AEDT PM
The following EBAY link is a charger that is suitable for 8.4v max Li Ion packs. I have seen these as low as $5.69 on EBAY.
If you buy, ask the seller to check the voltage output for 8.4v before posting.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261349305919?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The following link shows a suitable battery.
I am guessing the 18650 is the cell size (18mm*65mm), the 2S2P = 2 serial, 2 parallel, HC = high current and the SQ = square.

http://www.master-instruments.com.au/products/63836/LICB-18650-2S2P-HC-SQ.html


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 15 2016 18:52:56 AEDT PM
The attached pic shows the aux box.
It serves 3 purposes. It can house up to 2 * battery packs shown in previous post. It can be moved forward or aft to counterbalance the weight of the coil. It also acts a stand to stop the detector toppling if fitted with a small coil.
Notice also a fuse holder to provide further protection.
A further refinement would be running the cable inside the handle and exiting near the box.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 15 2016 18:57:37 AEDT PM
I am not going away this Christmas so if anybody is planning on visiting the southern Victorian Goldfields PM me and I will arrange to meet you and show you the QED in action.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Thursday December 15 2016 19:21:30 AEDT PM
nice bugs
now how much grunt can you fit into that box ,the more the better ,
and power cable up the shaft , nice
some flat spring steel on the bottom of the box bent in a slight arch to act as legs
looking good bugs
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Thursday December 15 2016 20:43:49 AEDT PM
  
  
Only battery that may fit ? would be the camera battery pack model BP-945 ..
but will have to be soldered in place and ye .. bit of mucking around ..
I use them on my machine 6.8Ah

the Enaloop batteries are a good suggestion Doug these are AA .. 2Ah I think

Ye the transportation of the Li batteries is the issue
ow hard would it be to fit one of these gef? and i guess it would have to be removed to be charged?

Stay posted Dave ...
Bugs this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261349305919?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
is what am using to charge my units .. i just put the guts in a small box and have a 12v cig plug and charge plug hanging out on a lead... works for me


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Thursday December 15 2016 21:31:39 AEDT PM
GR
"Is the power supply issue the first of many issues?"
NO to the best of my knowledge! The coils, the circuit, the firmware are  ALL settled! ::62::
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: WM6 on Thursday December 15 2016 23:59:20 AEDT PM
  

NO to the best of my knowledge! The coils, the circuit, the firmware are  ALL settled! ::62::
doug ::419::


It even works everywhere without yellow ferrite GB dancing.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Friday December 16 2016 00:57:13 AEDT AM
To me this latest setup of the Aux lithium battery box sounds a much safer way and similar to the GPX battery box setup although with it located beneath the armrest it will definitely act to counterbalance more effectively the weight of the coil. Even the GPZ has its lithium battery now under its armrest.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Friday December 16 2016 04:43:33 AEDT AM
the aux box is the winner for me, its the way I hope to go.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday December 16 2016 07:01:12 AEDT AM
More eBay links.
It's important to charge the cells individually to maximise their life.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Panasonic-NCR-18650-B-3400mAh-Flat-Top-Lithium-Li-Ion-Rechargeable-Battery-/301835346061?var=&hash=item4646c9e08d:m:mKMRP4qOJxJm3xcTFSiR5jA

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Black-ABS-Storage-Box-Holder-Case-For-1-2-3-4-Li-ion-18650-3-7V-Battery-With-Pin-/121822259118?var=&hash=item1c5d2c27ae:m:mHjsjrUFV13M8_NbKDsWGsA

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-2V-Charger-Indicator-For-4x-18650-Li-ion-Rechargeable-Battery-EU-US-UK-AU-Plug/122023022331?rt=nc&_soffid=5022358408&_soffType=OrderSubTotalOffer&_trksid=p5731.m3795


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Friday December 16 2016 07:59:54 AEDT AM
Bugwiskers, meeting up detecting friends on the QLD central coast, then travelling about the gold fields, but quite where we go detecting depends on the weather from day to day. We share a variety of detectors.
Be assured that I will not be detecting during the QLD summer afternoons!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Friday December 16 2016 10:45:14 AEDT AM
With all the negative stuff written about the QED during its development then sabotage would be a worry now it being ready for release.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday December 16 2016 12:18:00 AEDT PM
  
With all the negative stuff written about the QED during its development then sabotage would be a worry now it being ready for release.

Precisely, and there is a long history of that.
Drug Lords kill and maim to preserve their fat profit patch.
A greedy few couldn't give a stuff about their fellow prospectors.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday December 16 2016 12:35:36 AEDT PM
The attached pic shows a quality  "Hammond" case that can hold 3 * quad LI Ion packs. It the cells are 3000mAH then it can have 18000 mAH. With an average current consumption of 450mA then detecting time between charges is a whopping 40 hours.
I have to obtain the sockets and make the PCB's. The addition of a double pole, double throw switch and a 3 pin socket would allow balanced charging without removing the cells.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday December 16 2016 12:39:39 AEDT PM
Another eBay link.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/311736021252?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

At this price you could fill all sockets for $77.76


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday December 16 2016 12:58:58 AEDT PM
  
The attached pic shows a quality  "Hammond" case that can hold 3 * quad LI Ion packs. It the cells are 3000mAH then it can have 18000 mAH. With an average current consumption of 450mA then detecting time between charges is a whopping 40 hours.
I have to obtain the sockets and make the PCB's. The addition of a double pole, double throw switch and a 3 pin socket would allow balanced charging without removing the cells.

Well done!Now you are talking!!!! ::62::
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Friday December 16 2016 13:38:36 AEDT PM
ok bugs nice
Now get back to work
 ::10 :: red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Friday December 16 2016 14:31:49 AEDT PM
Unless you are really lucky and get a set of real Ultra Fire 3000 maH 18650 cells, treat anything that has the word Fire in the name with suspicion , there are tons of fakes around.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday December 16 2016 14:49:27 AEDT PM
  
Unless you are really lucky and get a set of real Ultra Fire 3000 maH 18650 cells, treat anything that has the word Fire in the name with suspicion , there are tons of fakes around.

Yes, so I found out. That's why after 3 years they are still sitting in their wrapping.
They did serve to show how they fit in the case so at least they were of some use.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Friday December 16 2016 15:51:31 AEDT PM
maybe should leave those 12000 mAh alone ah Bugs :-)


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: egixe4 on Friday December 16 2016 19:11:55 AEDT PM
  
ok bugs nice
Now get back to work
 ::10 :: red

Aux box looks like a great solution,
Also seems to have enough room for a small external speaker as well for those that want one ??

Nice work


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Saturday December 17 2016 05:31:45 AEDT AM
  
  
ok bugs nice
Now get back to work
 ::10 :: red

Aux box looks like a great solution,
Also seems to have enough room for a small external speaker as well for those that want one ??

Nice work

That would be a plan... nice one.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 17 2016 06:35:07 AEDT AM
No room in box for speaker and probably too far away from ears also.
Ear buds are good and more bluetooth modules are appearing in the market that rid us of the tethering cable menace.

The AUX BOX needs to have 2 sockets, one for 8.4v charge and the other for 4.2v charge. A DPDT switch selects upper or lower battery in the series pairs.
When away from home, use a 8.4v car charger and when at home charge with 4.2v to balance the cells to maximise battery life.

If the above is not clear I will post a drawing.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Saturday December 17 2016 16:06:00 AEDT PM
The switched balance charge schematic.
Only 1 charger can be used at a time.


Title: Re: QED update:Why can't you use DD coils?
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 18 2016 12:27:48 AEDT PM
The new  patent pending front end of the QED does not work well with DD coils. Not sure of the reasons for this. However it works extremely well with mono coils of all sizes and as QED seems to handle mineralized ground very and so far is far less susceptible to EMI than other Pi detectors with mono coils i see no reason why anyone would want to use a DD coil.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Big Gold on Sunday December 18 2016 15:05:48 AEDT PM
I have been following this recent progress with great interest.
I have noted you test results with smaller coil and on face value appear impressive but l would like to ask how did the relarger coils perform eg: the 15 inch or new 19 inch as these are the coils l would be utilising.

When inground testing against other brands of detectors was there any gold that the other detectors located that the QED couldn't hear and vice versa. What were the deepest bits and on what size does the QED perform best on.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 18 2016 15:56:45 AEDT PM
  
I have been following this recent progress with great interest.
I have noted you test results with smaller coil and on face value appear impressive but l would like to ask how did the relarger coils perform eg: the 15 inch or new 19 inch as these are the coils l would be utilising.

When inground testing against other brands of detectors was there any gold that the other detectors located that the QED couldn't hear and vice versa. What were the deepest bits and on what size does the QED perform best on.

I don't think much testing has been done with the largest mono's. As for your other question I suggest you talk to Dean at Goldsearch.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: IBGold on Sunday December 18 2016 17:29:10 AEDT PM
It works excellent with large coils is 800 mm x 600 mm big enough.

Regards, Ian. ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Big Gold on Sunday December 18 2016 18:09:16 AEDT PM
Thanks for your reply.

Is there any chance that Dean from Gold Search could answer questions directly on this forum that way we all could get his responses first hand without them being twisted around by third and fourth hand accounts from people who don't comprehend what he told them.



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Big Gold on Sunday December 18 2016 18:21:24 AEDT PM
  
It works excellent with large coils is 800 mm x 600 mm big enough.

Regards, Ian. ::62::

IBGold when did you use the QED l didn't think it was released yet. Or were you involved in the developement. Could you qualify your answer with some actual facts so we can make an informed decision based on actual facts and experience for example what did you find what depth ect. One liner coments really say nothing but leave an out for denial later. All l said it works excellent with large coils l didn't say it finds gold or it has found gold but l didn't say it found deep gold. Can you understand how one liners can be somewhat misinterpreted in order to refute later claims or disputes. This will be a significant outlay for me and that is why l am looking for actual facts that can't be disputed by those with an agenda.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 18 2016 20:00:32 AEDT PM
  
  
It works excellent with large coils is 800 mm x 600 mm big enough.

Regards, Ian. ::62::

IBGold when did you use the QED l didn't think it was released yet. Or were you involved in the developement. Could you qualify your answer with some actual facts so we can make an informed decision based on actual facts and experience for example what did you find what depth ect. One liner coments really say nothing but leave an out for denial later. All l said it works excellent with large coils l didn't say it finds gold or it has found gold but l didn't say it found deep gold. Can you understand how one liners can be somewhat misinterpreted in order to refute later claims or disputes. This will be a significant outlay for me and that is why l am looking for actual facts that can't be disputed by those with an agenda.

Here is a video of a very early(2011) prototype QED being depth tested on a large nugget at a test site. I have no doubt that the 2016 commercial version is as a good for depth and has better depth/sensitivity to small gold than the early versions and much better EMI rejection (ie better S/N) and better target response.I am personally not aware of any large/deep gold specimens/ nuggets that the commercial version has yet found but i can see no reason as to why it won't detect larger, deeper nuggets/specimens and does not suffer the huge depth losses (up to and over 30%) than can occur with a GPX on some nuggets with longer Tc's when run in any of the smooth timings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gto07L2acj4
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Big Gold on Sunday December 18 2016 20:25:58 AEDT PM
I'm not up to scratch with the Tecnical Jargon but from what l could understand is that the soon to be released detector in it's current state is unproven/untested on deep gold. In relation to the early Prototype how can you compare both detectors as being similiar.  Wasn't the earlier prototype required to be redesigned and therefore the new version would therefore be entirely different in its response and capabilities compared to the older one. L have seen posted elsewhere that there can be a huge difference between prototypes and actual released versions so they recomend not to go on prototype test result to form an opinion as whether to buy or not. Look at all the hype around the minelab coil apparently underperforming by some accounts.


Title: Re: QED update:Why can't you use DD coils?
Post by: WM6 on Sunday December 18 2016 20:27:36 AEDT PM
  
However it works extremely well with mono coils of all sizes and as QED seems to handle mineralized ground very and so far is far less susceptible to EMI than other Pi detectors with mono coils i see no reason why anyone would want to use a DD coil.
doug ::419::


Mono coils are even better and more affordable to build  and experiment for some DIY  QED owners.

Maybe after solving very deep target discrimination DD will become actual again.



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Sunday December 18 2016 23:20:54 AEDT PM
  
I'm not up to scratch with the Tecnical Jargon but from what l could understand is that the soon to be released detector in it's current state is unproven/untested on deep gold. In relation to the early Prototype how can you compare both detectors as being similiar.  Wasn't the earlier prototype required to be redesigned and therefore the new version would therefore be entirely different in its response and capabilities compared to the older one. L have seen posted elsewhere that there can be a huge difference between prototypes and actual released versions so they recomend not to go on prototype test result to form an opinion as whether to buy or not. Look at all the hype around the minelab coil apparently underperforming by some accounts.

How do we prove to your satisfaction that the QED in its current state will detect deep gold? From testing that has been done with  targets with a variety of Tc  (see the table in an earlier post in this thread-Reply #64 on: Wednesday December 7 2016 06:31:07 AEDT AM ) that the detection depths and sensitivity is comparable to or better than earlier prototypes because it can sample earlier and has a better S/N.
doug ::419::



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 19 2016 06:45:41 AEDT AM
I can understand the suspicion of potential buyers after years of "unsubstantiated improvement claims" in the industry. There are videos and air tests. If they aren't satisfactory then I suggest waiting for reports from customers or accounts from people who know the technology and have witnessed the QED in action.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Monday December 19 2016 08:10:50 AEDT AM
I see that the website still says AVAILABLE SOON any idea of the time frame ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 19 2016 10:51:27 AEDT AM
There are a limited number available for those who are capable of  or wanting to add their own battery.
The parts to make the AUX BOX should arrive tomorrow but I doubt I will be able to make them before Christmas.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday December 21 2016 13:37:06 AEDT PM
The 18650 Li Ion battery holders turned up and fit very snugly in the box.
The next step is to make a PCB that connects them and the "charge balance" switch, fuse etc then test.
If you can source genuine 3000mAH batteries the 6 cells should last for around 20 hours between charges.

PS The 3600mAH written on the batteries pictured is a "fairytale"


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Wednesday December 21 2016 14:57:30 AEDT PM
  
The 18650 Li Ion battery holders turned up and fit very snugly in the box.
The next step is to make a PCB that connects them and the "charge balance" switch, fuse etc then test.
If you can source genuine 3000mAH batteries the 6 cells should last for around 20 hours between charges.

PS The 3600mAH written on the batteries pictured is a "fairytale"


BEAUTIFUL!!   They Look Good

I would take the risk with the light-weight Li-ion Batteries sold as a separate pack, at buyers risk. The 20 hrs use-time gives 2 long, safe days of detetcting between charges... any prospector would be happy with that. Separate from the electronics they can be disconnected in a mishap.

Well done Bugs!

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kiwigoldhunter on Wednesday December 21 2016 15:57:43 AEDT PM
Those are very good batteries you have there , I bought a cree LED ultra fire torch of ebay 5 years ago for $19.00 and it is by far the best torch I have ever owned and the batteries that came with it , which are the same as you have in the photo are still going strong .
Have faith in those batteries they are fantastic .
 


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Wednesday December 21 2016 23:09:24 AEDT PM
The problem, Kiwigold, is that it is a gamble that anyone looking to buy ones like yours is going to get proper batteries. The reason being so many fakes with similar packaging and branding abound, and " look" like yours.......

In fact, I think if you were to google the torch forums, you will find that the consensus is probably to avoid any battery with the word "fire" in it. Not worth wasting the time.




Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kiwigoldhunter on Thursday December 22 2016 07:41:54 AEDT AM
I wasn't aware of that must have got lucky with my lot .


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: 6666 on Thursday December 22 2016 08:00:06 AEDT AM
Fake 18650 China batteries Slideshow
they are putting small cells in new cases and filling the gap with flour or plastic, total rip off, 3 of my 5 purchases on ebay have been fakes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzzfzGJpUS8


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Thursday December 22 2016 08:19:25 AEDT AM
hi all , ive heard the same maybe try this
http://www.best18650battery.com/
or jaycar
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Thursday December 22 2016 08:47:11 AEDT AM
Why not try the company Bugs linked to, further back in this thread. I know they make up packs, but maybe they also sell individual cells. Then at least you can be sure of reliable running. It would be odd to hobble detector run time.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Thursday December 22 2016 09:11:30 AEDT AM
http://www.master-instruments.com.au/category/Lithium_Ion_Cylindrical_Batteries/1549

http://www.premierbatteries.com.au/lithium-ion-rechargeable-batteries


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: BILLY on Saturday December 24 2016 08:56:24 AEDT AM
  When do you expect the QED to be available at Gold Search Bugwhiskers?  Real curious to see how it works in the field.  I see even some folks in the USA are waiting. ::402::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Monday December 26 2016 09:18:24 AEDT AM
Will be interesting to see what the first lot of buyers think and how they go in the hands of independent operators. No offense but 5 year old videos and reports from those within the QED circle don't cut it for me.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 26 2016 11:02:48 AEDT AM
  
Will be interesting to see what the first lot of buyers think and how they go in the hands of independent operators. No offense but 5 year old videos and reports from those within the QED circle don't cut it for me.


Recent videos coming soon.
Meanwhile the battery issue is solved with a large range of options, more later.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: authere on Monday December 26 2016 12:29:24 AEDT PM
Hi All,

A new detector technology has been introduced on Oneday's forum, way above my head, but he will have a huge battle on his hands, I hope he's up to speed

Ron

PS...Hope you's all had a Merry Christmas


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Monday December 26 2016 14:03:52 AEDT PM
  

A new detector technology has been introduced on Oneday's forum, way above my head, but he will have a huge battle on his hands, I hope he's up to speed


Also it had a mention on the 4umer forum however the QED may be out and about soon and at a fraction of the price.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Monday December 26 2016 14:27:24 AEDT PM
  
  
Will be interesting to see what the first lot of buyers think and how they go in the hands of independent operators. No offense but 5 year old videos and reports from those within the QED circle don't cut it for me.


Recent videos coming soon.
Meanwhile the battery issue is solved with a large range of options, more later.
Excellent. Will be good to see the current version in action. Any live dig footage?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday December 26 2016 14:45:57 AEDT PM
A Christmas present from the QLD tester, many thanks G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvXnSkIT04g
Link-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvXnSkIT04g
This model dates back to April. The latest revision has inverted audio added so small targets can be rising pitch.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Monday December 26 2016 15:40:41 AEDT PM
Wow the video speaks for itself.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday December 26 2016 16:23:10 AEDT PM
  
Wow the video speaks for itself.

Certainly answers the question of whether the QED can detect virgin gold! We know the QED has also recently detected gold in Vic as well!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Monday December 26 2016 23:15:52 AEDT PM
Great response, can't wait to see some more.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Monday December 26 2016 23:19:36 AEDT PM
Very strong signals there! Looked a bit like amateur hour though. Get a bigger pick lads  ::620:: The ground looked pretty grey and fluffy too. Not very mineralised looking and well surfaced. Ok keep them coming Bugs.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Tuesday December 27 2016 06:41:18 AEDT AM
Bugwiskers, do you perchance have a vid of the QED versus the 5k in unbulldozed ground with the mineralised top soil still in situ undisturbed please? Thanks.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Tuesday December 27 2016 06:47:44 AEDT AM
Authere, the CSIRO tech was actually developed some time ago and is for X-raying ore looking for traces of gold.

(One cannot take a portable X-ray machine around the gold fields emitting X-rays into the enviro!)


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 27 2016 08:24:31 AEDT AM
  
Very strong signals there! Looked a bit like amateur hour though. Get a bigger pick lads  ::620:: The ground looked pretty grey and fluffy too. Not very mineralised looking and well surfaced. Ok keep them coming Bugs.

Mineralised ground is not the problem except perhaps for the early ML models that needed to tame it with DD coils.
The biggest problem is variable ground and the ability of the GB method to cope.
I'll see if I can get one of the testers to make a video. A few of them also have 5000's.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Tuesday December 27 2016 08:56:01 AEDT AM
Bugs, does that mean that the QED handles GB well? or does it mean it handles GB well, but its a problem in variable ground, and needs to be GB ed regularly?
Is it it obvious when its out of balance.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Big Gold on Tuesday December 27 2016 09:22:26 AEDT AM
Well that'that then. I was eagerly waiting to purchase the QED for Xmas but it did not happen during that time l monitored the forums to gleen what imformative info l could get on the QED.

But all l found was misinformation and deliberate misinterpretations and misquotes posted on this site by members like Huego ect ect. Blokes like him do more damage to you genuine attempt to sell the QED its like he is genuinely trying to assinate sales of QED because whilst you allow him and others to post thier dribble then no sensible person could take anything stated about the QED seriously. I have also been informed that the QED did find a couple of bits of gold but was outclassed by the other detectors that found far more gold and also a lot more gold than what the QED could hear. Yes the QED did find some gold but far less than the other detectors.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Tuesday December 27 2016 09:34:18 AEDT AM
  
Very strong signals there! Looked a bit like amateur hour though. Get a bigger pick lads  ::620:: The ground looked pretty grey and fluffy too. Not very mineralised looking and well surfaced. Ok keep them coming Bugs.

BW I would not waste time trying to please with any more videos as all it does is feed more negatives as shown here and elsewhere.

 

  


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 27 2016 09:39:34 AEDT AM
  
Well that'that then. I was eagerly waiting to purchase the QED for Xmas but it did not happen during that time l monitored the forums to gleen what imformative info l could get on the QED.

But all l found was misinformation and deliberate misinterpretations and misquotes posted on this site by members like Huego ect ect. Blokes like him do more damage to you genuine attempt to sell the QED its like he is genuinely trying to assinate sales of QED because whilst you allow him and others to post thier dribble then no sensible person could take anything stated about the QED seriously. I have also been informed that the QED did find a couple of bits of gold but was outclassed by the other detectors that found far more gold and also a lot more gold than what the QED could hear. Yes the QED did find some gold but far less than the other detectors.

Minelab dealers have had a very good run over many years. In the "good old days" so I am told they made a lazy $2000 on a new detector sale and another lazy $1000 if there was a trade in. I reckon they would fight tooth and nail to prevent a performance competitive, realistically priced detector from being marketed. Go your hardest Big Gold but be aware that your intentions are obvious.




Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday December 27 2016 09:48:02 AEDT AM
  
Well that'that then. I was eagerly waiting to purchase the QED for Xmas but it did not happen during that time l monitored the forums to gleen what imformative info l could get on the QED.

But all l found was misinformation and deliberate misinterpretations and misquotes posted on this site by members like Huego ect ect. Blokes like him do more damage to you genuine attempt to sell the QED its like he is genuinely trying to assinate sales of QED because whilst you allow him and others to post thier dribble then no sensible person could take anything stated about the QED seriously. I have also been informed that the QED did find a couple of bits of gold but was outclassed by the other detectors that found far more gold and also a lot more gold than what the QED could hear. Yes the QED did find some gold but far less than the other detectors.

Big Gold you are certainly posting dribble, misinformation and unsubstantiated claims and sources.Unless you are prepared to substantiate them, then you can have a  forum holiday!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Big Gold on Tuesday December 27 2016 09:52:58 AEDT AM
Here is some light reading that may be if benifit. Read the section about comparisons. https://m.consumer.vic.gov.au/businesses/fair-trading/advertising-and-promotions/false-or-misleading-representations.

By allowing mates to post replies on your behalf that are inacurate or misleadind and failing to rectify those untrue statements leaves you liable.

Due to the unprofessional way you allow this site to run leaves me with no confidence to purchase your pipe dream detector and therefore with most probably purchase a Garret or Aldi special


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Tuesday December 27 2016 10:03:35 AEDT AM
  
  
Very strong signals there! Looked a bit like amateur hour though. Get a bigger pick lads  ::620:: The ground looked pretty grey and fluffy too. Not very mineralised looking and well surfaced. Ok keep them coming Bugs.

BW I would not waste time trying to please with any more videos as all it does is feed more negatives as shown here and elsewhere
  
What's negative there buddy???? It's a very nice signal on those bits as I noted. I can't help it if I got a laugh out of them scratching around with that pick. The observations on the ground would be picked up by any gold detectorist worth 2 bob. It's been surfaced/pushed and it's a fairly benign looking area. Most Victorians would love a patch of gold bearing ground like that. The EMI resistance would be of far more interest up north especially at the moment!! A video demonstrating that would be far more beneficial up there than demonstrating ground handling capabilities on fluffy grey dirt.
Please don't stop with the vids Bugs. Some of QED in variable ground showing the ground balancing process would be great. The higher the mineralisation and the more widely variable the ground the better!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Tuesday December 27 2016 10:44:52 AEDT AM
  
The observations on the ground would be picked up by any gold detectorist worth 2 bob.

It's been surfaced/pushed and it's a fairly benign looking area. Most Victorians would love a patch of gold bearing ground like that.

 A video demonstrating that would be far more beneficial up there than demonstrating ground handling capabilities on fluffy grey dirt.

Oh so were you there when that demonstration video was recorded to know how mineralised that ground was and any other ground around is.  

Lets not give to much credit to the ground handling of the QED.



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 27 2016 11:18:58 AEDT AM
  
Here is some light reading that may be if benifit. Read the section about comparisons. https://m.consumer.vic.gov.au/businesses/fair-trading/advertising-and-promotions/false-or-misleading-representations.

By allowing mates to post replies on your behalf that are inacurate or misleadind and failing to rectify those untrue statements leaves you liable.

Due to the unprofessional way you allow this site to run leaves me with no confidence to purchase your pipe dream detector and therefore with most probably purchase a Garret or Aldi special


You want to quote consumer laws Big Gold, apply them to this drivel !
http://www.coinweek.com/coins/metal-detecting-2/australian-gold-prospector-unearths-87-ounce-gold-nugget/

Go and buy you ALDI detector, it will also see a nugget this size at 6 inches.



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday December 27 2016 11:25:59 AEDT AM
  
Here is some light reading that may be if benifit. Read the section about comparisons. https://m.consumer.vic.gov.au/businesses/fair-trading/advertising-and-promotions/false-or-misleading-representations.


The same applies to claims of up to 30% more depth for the SAD 7000 19" coil!!!!!! ::620::
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday December 27 2016 11:59:31 AEDT AM
And while the ACCC are at it they can also evaluate the cumulative claimed depth improvements from the SD2000 to the GPX 5000.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday December 27 2016 12:29:38 AEDT PM
Lets not get side tracked and off topic.This thread is about the QED.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Tuesday December 27 2016 15:02:08 AEDT PM
  
  
The observations on the ground would be picked up by any gold detectorist worth 2 bob.

It's been surfaced/pushed and it's a fairly benign looking area. Most Victorians would love a patch of gold bearing ground like that.

 A video demonstrating that would be far more beneficial up there than demonstrating ground handling capabilities on fluffy grey dirt.

Oh so were you there when that demonstration video was recorded to know how mineralised that ground was and any other ground around is.  

Lets not give to much credit to the ground handling of the QED.
You've got a bee in your bonnet about nothing. Anyone who has detected a variety of ground conditions would most likely agree that the ground in the video looks tame. That doesn't detract from the detector at all but it also doesn't satisfy a person's curiosity on how it goes in much more mineralised and variable ground either or undisturbed ground. Queensland is also not renowned for its hot ground but north of the border is renowned for having difficulties with EMI especially this time of year. What better place to demonstrate the EMI resistance of the QED? Maybe the Northern Territory? Victoria is renowned for its large areas of mineralisation and can be quite variable in areas with hot pockets, clay domes and so forth. That's the nature of the beast and that's where people want to see the ground balance capabilities in action. Some have commented that they didn't really understand the manual so a demo on how to initial ground balance the QED in mineralised ground then maintaining it through variable ground conditions would be beneficial. Is that too much for you to understand mylab? Salt ground would also be another worthy area to demonstrate GB and QED effectiveness in those areas?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday December 27 2016 15:20:09 AEDT PM
  
  
  
The observations on the ground would be picked up by any gold detectorist worth 2 bob.

It's been surfaced/pushed and it's a fairly benign looking area. Most Victorians would love a patch of gold bearing ground like that.

 A video demonstrating that would be far more beneficial up there than demonstrating ground handling capabilities on fluffy grey dirt.

Oh so were you there when that demonstration video was recorded to know how mineralised that ground was and any other ground around is.  

Lets not give to much credit to the ground handling of the QED.
You've got a bee in your bonnet about nothing. Anyone who has detected a variety of ground conditions would most likely agree that the ground in the video looks tame. That doesn't detract from the detector at all but it also doesn't satisfy a person's curiosity on how it goes in much more mineralised and variable ground either or undisturbed ground. Queensland is also not renowned for its hot ground but north of the border is renowned for having difficulties with EMI especially this time of year. What better place to demonstrate the EMI resistance of the QED? Maybe the Northern Territory? Victoria is renowned for its large areas of mineralisation and can be quite variable in areas with hot pockets, clay domes and so forth. That's the nature of the beast and that's where people want to see the ground balance capabilities in action. Some have commented that they didn't really understand the manual so a demo on how to initial ground balance the QED in mineralised ground then maintaining it through variable ground conditions would be beneficial. Is that too much for you to understand mylab? Salt ground would also be another worthy area to demonstrate GB and QED effectiveness in those areas?

I suggest that you talk to Dean at Goldsearch who has used a QED for some time about how it goes over Vic mineralized ground. The QED  also does not have auto  tracking or any specific timing regime for conductive ground. As for EMI resistance the QED can be run in bugs workshop  with air cons and other electrical equipment running with minimal effects. Any ML detector with a mono  will just go crazy in the same situation.I am personally not sure how the QED  copes with  distant electrical storms and lightning strikes but the sampling regime and the way it processes received signals should mean its better than a SD/GP/GPX with a mono coil.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Tuesday December 27 2016 15:33:50 AEDT PM
  

 Is that too much for you to understand mylab?

 

You first asked for "Any live dig footage?" and too BW's credit he obliged with a video.

Of course you appear to know which OZ state has more mineralised ground than the other therefore be it not for me to argue that point with you.

Actually there is no further points for me, so the floor is yours.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Tuesday December 27 2016 17:01:27 AEDT PM
  
  
  
  
The observations on the ground would be picked up by any gold detectorist worth 2 bob.

It's been surfaced/pushed and it's a fairly benign looking area. Most Victorians would love a patch of gold bearing ground like that.

 A video demonstrating that would be far more beneficial up there than demonstrating ground handling capabilities on fluffy grey dirt.

Oh so were you there when that demonstration video was recorded to know how mineralised that ground was and any other ground around is.  

Lets not give to much credit to the ground handling of the QED.
You've got a bee in your bonnet about nothing. Anyone who has detected a variety of ground conditions would most likely agree that the ground in the video looks tame. That doesn't detract from the detector at all but it also doesn't satisfy a person's curiosity on how it goes in much more mineralised and variable ground either or undisturbed ground. Queensland is also not renowned for its hot ground but north of the border is renowned for having difficulties with EMI especially this time of year. What better place to demonstrate the EMI resistance of the QED? Maybe the Northern Territory? Victoria is renowned for its large areas of mineralisation and can be quite variable in areas with hot pockets, clay domes and so forth. That's the nature of the beast and that's where people want to see the ground balance capabilities in action. Some have commented that they didn't really understand the manual so a demo on how to initial ground balance the QED in mineralised ground then maintaining it through variable ground conditions would be beneficial. Is that too much for you to understand mylab? Salt ground would also be another worthy area to demonstrate GB and QED effectiveness in those areas?

I suggest that you talk to Dean at Goldsearch who has used a QED for some time about how it goes over Vic mineralized ground. The QED  also does not have auto  tracking or any specific timing regime for conductive ground. As for EMI resistance the QED can be run in bugs workshop  with air cons and other electrical equipment running with minimal effects. Any ML detector with a mono  will just go crazy in the same situation.I am personally not sure how the QED  copes with  distant electrical storms and lightning strikes but the sampling regime and the way it processes received signals should mean its better than a SD/GP/GPX with a mono coil.
doug ::419::

Dean at Goldsearch ok. My mistake I had thought this forum was all about Q&A on the QED. I will refer my questions to him. Hopefully he's more informative than the lap dog known as Huego. Maybe Huego could be trained to post cut and paste standard answers here? He's good at cut and paste plus it would be more resourceful to have him help with the launch of the QED rather than continually try to rehash old forum wars where frankly both sides did their fair share of stone throwing   ::62:: If the QED can offer advantages over what's already available then I will have one. If not it will just be another also ran like the TDI and ATX. And that Huego is a fact.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Wednesday December 28 2016 07:19:21 AEDT AM
The soil in the vid has undoubtably low VRM.

But the capability of how well a detector’s spatial maintenance of GB is minimized (“minimal ground noise”), whilst maintaining good depth, in high VRM mineralised gold fields, is of quintessential interest.

Dean assures that the QED has superbly low ground noise, which makes the QED very exciting indeed! Come on Bugs, release ASAP please so we can all have a go!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday December 28 2016 10:01:05 AEDT AM
  
The soil in the vid has undoubtably low VRM.

What is the basis of your assumption?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Wednesday December 28 2016 13:07:19 AEDT PM
Now that is a good question Doug as it appears from the reply that you have questioned and a reply I received to one of my postings that both of these members were on-site when this particular video was recorded for them to know so much about the type of the ground where the video took place.

From my experience when surface ground is cleared away either by raking or using machinery the new ground exposed can be far more difficult to detect since that top surface layer can act as a buffer zone compared to the mineralised gravel layer below.

The gravel during the first dig and from within the hole may well be highly mineralised gravel and the clay during the second dig does have an orange colour to it so it too could be well mineralised also.

Only those present during the video would know the facts.
 


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Thursday December 29 2016 00:33:50 AEDT AM
From the surrounding ground, pushed up ground and the ground being dug it would be a fair assumption to say that ground would be mild at best. A Geologist that commented on it said it seemed to be mildly mineralised ground. I'm just a dumb fossicker but in my experience that type of grey looking ground is usually fairly tame. If we have no hope of saying that the ground isn't mineralised then how can you say or assume that it is? Maybe the testers in these videos need to come forth and relay the correct information so informed decisions can be made. Something else they could clarify is whether the QED was the detector that picked up those signals originally or if it was just tested on undug signals discovered with another machine. That is how it seems to be relayed there i.e testing the QED again showed that it was able to receive a response on another target? I really don't believe we are asking to much to be provided with some background information. It would stop petty arguments on things for a start and eliminate assumptions to some degree. I have sent a fairly long request to Dean at Goldsearch who I'm hoping has some good info for us all. He does however talk the TDI up for sales so while I'll accept the information some skepticism will remain until an independent report or reports come in.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Thursday December 29 2016 01:29:22 AEDT AM
  
From the surrounding ground, pushed up ground and the ground being dug it would be a fair assumption to say that ground would be mild at best. A Geologist that commented on it said it seemed to be mildly mineralised ground. I'm just a dumb fossicker but in my experience that type of grey looking ground is usually fairly tame...............  some skepticism will remain until an independent report or reports come in.

Your “ASSUMPTION” and the Goe’s “SEEMED” are words that show that you both “KNOW” exactly what that ground was like.

However don't be to hard on yourself as being only a "DUMB" fossicker.

Stick to your “SKEPTICISM” until your independent report comes in.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 29 2016 04:33:11 AEDT AM
  
From the surrounding ground, pushed up ground and the ground being dug it would be a fair assumption to say that ground would be mild at best. A Geologist that commented on it said it seemed to be mildly mineralised ground. I'm just a dumb fossicker but in my experience that type of grey looking ground is usually fairly tame. If we have no hope of saying that the ground isn't mineralised then how can you say or assume that it is? Maybe the testers in these videos need to come forth and relay the correct information so informed decisions can be made. Something else they could clarify is whether the QED was the detector that picked up those signals originally or if it was just tested on undug signals discovered with another machine. That is how it seems to be relayed there i.e testing the QED again showed that it was able to receive a response on another target? I really don't believe we are asking to much to be provided with some background information. It would stop petty arguments on things for a start and eliminate assumptions to some degree. I have sent a fairly long request to Dean at Goldsearch who I'm hoping has some good info for us all. He does however talk the TDI up for sales so while I'll accept the information some skepticism will remain until an independent report or reports come in.

Let's carve up this post and see what game you are playing.

A: The ground at the site is mild and any detector could have been used there.
B: Maybe another detector actually located the nuggets.
C: Your info request to Dean has been sent but not answered yet.
D: Dean is only interested in selling the TDI.

Is this correct Lachlan?




Title: Re: QED update
Post by: techo_bob on Thursday December 29 2016 08:45:32 AEDT AM
Hi Bugs.
In the foreseeable future is there going to be the option of a ground grab. or auto ground balance set-up
as it looks like the sensitivity is not a problem, this would be the icing on the cake..

Bob..


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 29 2016 08:56:01 AEDT AM
  
Hi Bugs.
In the foreseeable future is there going to be the option of a ground grab. or auto ground balance set-up
as it looks like the sensitivity is not a problem, this would be the icing on the cake..

Bob..

One day maybe.
The advantage of manual GB is that the setting gives feedback about ground mineralisation.
The higher the GB number, the more mineralised the ground the greater the chance of it containing gold.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: techo_bob on Thursday December 29 2016 08:58:58 AEDT AM
Thanks Bugs
I guess I will have to buy one and test for myself

Cheer's Bob..


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Thursday December 29 2016 09:15:54 AEDT AM
  
  
From the surrounding ground, pushed up ground and the ground being dug it would be a fair assumption to say that ground would be mild at best. A Geologist that commented on it said it seemed to be mildly mineralised ground. I'm just a dumb fossicker but in my experience that type of grey looking ground is usually fairly tame. If we have no hope of saying that the ground isn't mineralised then how can you say or assume that it is? Maybe the testers in these videos need to come forth and relay the correct information so informed decisions can be made. Something else they could clarify is whether the QED was the detector that picked up those signals originally or if it was just tested on undug signals discovered with another machine. That is how it seems to be relayed there i.e testing the QED again showed that it was able to receive a response on another target? I really don't believe we are asking to much to be provided with some background information. It would stop petty arguments on things for a start and eliminate assumptions to some degree. I have sent a fairly long request to Dean at Goldsearch who I'm hoping has some good info for us all. He does however talk the TDI up for sales so while I'll accept the information some skepticism will remain until an independent report or reports come in.

Let's carve up this post and see what game you are playing.

A: The ground at the site is mild and any detector could have been used there.
B: Maybe another detector actually located the nuggets.
C: Your info request to Dean has been sent but not answered yet.
D: Dean is only interested in selling the TDI.

Is this correct Lachlan?



No game. What game is mylab playing continually attacking me for having an opinion on the ground in the video yet he has one too. Maybe he should read up on surficial mineralisation and how + why it occurs in goldfields. If he is getting dramatic ground handling difficulties after raking I'd suggest he needs a detector with more depth capabilities. I pray he's not a QED tester!
A. It would appear that way? It's an opinion only. I see nothing in the video to suggest otherwise.
B. Maybe it did. Not quite clear and the wording isn't clear about that and may even lead some to think that.
C. Sent but not answered. Noted the shop has been closed. Will be open today and tomorrow then closed again until 9/01/17. May not get a reply until post that date?
D. He is the sole Australian Whites distributor. It may be in his best interests to sell them? Frankly I have little trust in getting the full story out of any detector salesperson regardless of what brand. Having a tester or user of a pre release QED who is also your sole distributor smacks of the same ethical questioning that is thrown at JP constantly in regards to his Minelab connection with testing and now selling is it not? Different standards there?

Some up front information from your testers would be great but I can appreciate that isn't always possible. However could someone here possibly provide some more information rather than refer people to the salesman where no doubt we will only receive a glowing report? Did I mention I have a vehement distrust of detector salespersons. You and your followers may have to get used to criticism whether constructive or not. After the QED is released I sincerely doubt that everyone who buys it will love it and give it a 5 star report. That's a fact of life and anything that is sold in general. Opinion being stated now will be nothing compared to what you read or hear in the ensuing months. Harden up a bit fellows.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 29 2016 09:42:10 AEDT AM
How about all attacks and criticism cease and we let the QED rise or fall on its merits and not on speculation and bagging from any who may have a vested interest in attacking a performance competitive product at a realistic price.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Thursday December 29 2016 10:02:57 AEDT AM
  
  
No worries, will look at putting one of the minelab kits on it, lol! Hasn't been released yet, but should work great. Nice light unit, internal battery, wireless speaker/phones....should be perfect.

Hi all,

I have not talked about the QED for obvious reasons but now can congratulate Howard on everything finally coming to fruition I have been involved in testing ETC. for a few years and can confirm it does find gold and is in my opinion equal to a GPX 5000 in most cases and better in some cases it is excellent with  Wi-Fi head phones I use TDK WR700 and they are plug and play and work a treat those who were brought  up with manual G.B will find it easy to G.B others will soon get the hang of it, the two most important controls are the Bias and the Volume settings but once you get the hang of it it is intuitive I have had it on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED,  Davent talk to Buggs about a speaker he should be able to put you in touch with a supplier as he has one that plugs straight in I have one here but I have only just returned from W.A so when I have unpacked I will find the box and give you its name and model number.

Regards, Ian. ::62::

Point taken BW and maybe this posting had been forgotten about some time back.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Thursday December 29 2016 10:04:31 AEDT AM
Fair call. Let's get one thing straight though. I have no vested interest in attacking the QED. I do want relevant information. It doesn't matter to me if the QED costs $1 or $20,000 it must perform as stated to be of any practical use. If not it's just taking up valuable space and I've been there before with broken promises on cheaper machines that were going to be the next best thing. They weren't.  For me and likely many others the QED must offer an advantage to outlay the cash. If not I may as well buy 3 or 4 new coils and continue as normal.That is my vested interest in it.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Lachlan on Thursday December 29 2016 10:05:43 AEDT AM
  
  
  
No worries, will look at putting one of the minelab kits on it, lol! Hasn't been released yet, but should work great. Nice light unit, internal battery, wireless speaker/phones....should be perfect.

Hi all,

I have not talked about the QED for obvious reasons but now can congratulate Howard on everything finally coming to fruition I have been involved in testing ETC. for a few years and can confirm it does find gold and is in my opinion equal to a GPX 5000 in most cases and better in some cases it is excellent with  Wi-Fi head phones I use TDK WR700 and they are plug and play and work a treat those who were brought  up with manual G.B will find it easy to G.B others will soon get the hang of it, the two most important controls are the Bias and the Volume settings but once you get the hang of it it is intuitive I have had it on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED,  Davent talk to Buggs about a speaker he should be able to put you in touch with a supplier as he has one that plugs straight in I have one here but I have only just returned from W.A so when I have unpacked I will find the box and give you its name and model number.

Regards, Ian. ::62::

Point taken BW and maybe this posting had been forgotten about some time back.
Thanks for reposting that.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday December 29 2016 10:32:43 AEDT AM
The QED only has to be better that the ATX and the TDI because at around half the price including a quality coil it certainly has a place in the market.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Thursday December 29 2016 11:27:23 AEDT AM
Mylab is quite correct; only those present can provide info about the circumstances. But as this info has not been disseminated here, one can only speculate. It is my experience that the depleted underlying grey soils produce less ground noise than the surface "orange/red/brown" layer, and often far less ground noise. But I agree, sometimes it can surprise by producing some ground noise despite its benign appearance. The clay beneath can be noisier than the grey in between, but still less than the surface. Some of the signal from the clay seems to be because of salt quite often.

Out of interest on occasion I have tested VRM soil depth profile of earth exposed from being sliced open (by machinery), by deliberately setting a metal detector out-in-GB and waving it up and down over the layers of exposed soils. As expected the surface "orange/red/brown" layer reports strongest of all, and the signal typically gets weaker and weaker as one probes deeper and deeper, but can increase locally in clay zones, and eventually at substantial depth, the soil gives effectively no signal at all. Suggest others try this too.

Of course an exception to this is when water has deposited benign soil on top of mineralised soils, but this is usually obvious (e.g. bottom of gullies).

But this topic is about QED updates as others have pointed out, and I for one eagerly await its release!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Sunday January 1 2017 16:35:26 AEDT PM
  

The advantage of manual GB is that the setting gives feedback about ground mineralisation.
The higher the GB number, the more mineralised the ground the greater the chance of it containing gold.


First up "Happy New Year" to one and all.

This thread has certainly created a lot of views and replies as well on other forums.  

In the above quote from BW it appears the QED produces a numbered figure readout during its GB procedure.

Having those GB figures display on its LCD screen is an interesting feature and an advantage that I am not sure IF any other PI has and use also?




Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday January 1 2017 17:44:46 AEDT PM
It is very useful to determine the "hotness" of the ground.
My standard backyard soil is mostly basalt. It GB's at 120.
I have a 19" diameter patch of Beggary Hill "soil" down the backyard that GB's at 130.
I went to Daisy Hill today in the VIC goldfields and it was also 130.
Each count represent 20nS of time when adjusting the position of the GB sample so from Basalt to Hot Goldfield ground requires a change of 200nS.
The QED also has other new innovations in addition to Dave Emery's patent pending Front End.
The Class D, 500KHz PWM audio provides a very sharp signal response despite the additional 4 stages of filtering to reduce EMI.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: authere on Sunday January 1 2017 19:02:47 AEDT PM
Hi Bugsy,

All the best for the New Year, With the GB being adjustable and making a difference did you include adjustment for damping of the coils to get the most out of them or is it a fixed setup now

Cheers Ron


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Sunday January 1 2017 20:21:34 AEDT PM
Bugs, will a booster enhance the signal, or is it not nessasary?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday January 2 2017 07:37:54 AEDT AM
The damping is fixed to suit  the typical coil 0.4 ohms / 300 uH.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday January 2 2017 07:39:24 AEDT AM
  
Bugs, will a booster enhance the signal, or is it not nessasary?

No external/additional booster required, increasing the BIAS boosts the signal.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday January 2 2017 10:18:26 AEDT AM
  
  
Bugs, will a booster enhance the signal, or is it not nessasary?

No external/additional booster required, increasing the BIAS boosts the signal.
How does the bias actually work to boost the signal?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday January 2 2017 16:56:16 AEDT PM
The VCA circuit (controls the signal volume) uses a small signal switching FET.
Such FET's have a Gate threshold voltage. The BIAS is used to raise the voltage so that when over a target it takes less signal strength to produce a good audible signal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hair-trigger



Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday January 2 2017 17:28:38 AEDT PM
  
The VCA circuit (controls the signal volume) uses a small signal switching FET.
Such FET's have a Gate threshold voltage. The BIAS is used to raise the voltage so that when over a target it takes less signal strength to produce a good audible signal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hair-trigger




So could the bias be used to "dampen down" any ground responses from highly  mineralized and variable ground?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday January 2 2017 19:09:33 AEDT PM
  
  
The VCA circuit (controls the signal volume) uses a small signal switching FET.
Such FET's have a Gate threshold voltage. The BIAS is used to raise the voltage so that when over a target it takes less signal strength to produce a good audible signal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hair-trigger




So could the bias be used to "dampen down" any ground responses from highly  mineralized and variable ground?
doug ::419::

The bias can be reduced to cope with high EMI levels and anything else that produces a signal like moans from variable ground. Target detection signal will also be reduced.  Variable ground tends to produce a groan rather than a chirp from a metal target making it easy to discern the difference.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Saturday January 7 2017 09:56:20 AEDT AM
A lightning strike has taken out BW Internet and telephone. When he gets back online he will provide an update  re the QED  battery situation. I know it must be frustrating that this is holding up sales but it came about because BW was advised NOT to sell the QED with Li batteries because of the huge public liability risk for the dealer and BW and this necessitated a change of plan. If people want to use Li batteries then they can do so but they will have make the mods to the battery box themselves. Instructions on how to do this will be provided in the manual or an addendum to it.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Monday January 9 2017 13:06:18 AEDT PM
So any information at all on the progress?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Monday January 9 2017 13:40:49 AEDT PM
  
So any information at all on the progress?

I am hoping to get some stock to Dean by the end of this week.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Monday January 9 2017 15:32:41 AEDT PM
  

I am hoping to get some stock to Dean by the end of this week.


Thats good news Bugs. Glad to hear the soldering iron was not stopped by the comms outage you had, not for long anyway.  ::419::

The $650 estimated price quoted by some flounders was made years ago, before it was redesigned / upgradded & the newest technology built into it. Includes a good coil valued at around $500 too. MADE (designed & built/assembled) in AUSTRALIA too, thats a good thing, worth "crowing" about.

 Pass the salt & pepper their way wouldya Reg?   ::620::

If you have your own coil & want just the box & stem then its only $1200 *   ::10 ::

What else can you get for that money??? (quoting YF)

 ::62::

* PS: That's COMMERCIAL REALITY ..... but without the GOLD TAX!!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday January 10 2017 09:25:33 AEDT AM
I saw  the production  QED for the first time yesterday (after Reg had left) .It was only used in BW backyard which is FULL of buried junk! One thing that did stand out is how the target response on  some small  gold was largely unaffected by sweep speed from very slow to extremely fast.In fact  to me it seemed the target response was better at very fast sweep speeds.So for those  patch hunting it should give a lot more ground coverage in a days detecting than  ML detectors.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday January 10 2017 13:26:11 AEDT PM
Another advantage of the QED is its very simple circuit which BW knows like the back of his hand. Should a fault  occur in a QED then by the nature of the fault BW will know exactly what it is caused by and thus will be able to quickly rectify it.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Tuesday January 10 2017 13:33:10 AEDT PM
 The delay of the QED availability is due to the  battery box circuit boards which BW ordered and had made. When delivered they were not as he specified.As a result he has to very carefully cut  each of them in half and then cut out each corner(so that they will fit in the battery box) which takes time and must be done with great care.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday January 10 2017 19:17:33 AEDT PM
Back on topic.
The QED battery box. 2 layers of 6 cells providing 9-10 hours of detection time.
ALDI cells shown costing just $18 for the full set of 12.
The pink string makes it easier to lift the pack out when changing batteries.
It's a snug fit so there is no rattling or wire/joint fatigueing when swinging.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Tuesday January 10 2017 21:36:15 AEDT PM
So batteries and chargers not included then?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday January 11 2017 06:45:09 AEDT AM
  
So batteries and chargers not included then?

A battery set and 12 cell charger are included in the $1800 price.
If people want extras they are readily available and very affordable.
 


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Wednesday January 11 2017 08:51:53 AEDT AM
thats awesome Bugs!


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday January 11 2017 09:59:55 AEDT AM
 I see that Lachlan on finders says  that the QED lacks a salt timing  for conductive ground and raises this as  a criticism.Well  just look at the problems that conductive ground causes the  SAD 7000 a detector costing over 5x the QED price and  whose 19" coil costs more than than the QED!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday January 11 2017 11:05:50 AEDT AM
 The QED does not auto tracking.Auto tracking has upsides and downsides.The downside is that with mono coils on the gp/gpx its possible to track  out some fainter target signals (won't happen with a DD coil) if the coil is repeatedly swept over the target.With the QED I don't think this can ever happen regardless of swing speed or how often the coil is swept across the target.
doug ::419::
Edited:Wednesday January 11 2017 21:24:21 AEDT PM


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Wednesday January 11 2017 11:24:36 AEDT AM
Gb digital readout
The QED GB gives a digital readout for the ground,As i understand it the higher the reading the more mineralized the ground. From memory a typical readout for Vic ground is around 130 .Beggary Hill from Wedderburn gives about 138 but some ground from Teetulpa  in SA gives a readout of 148!!! When you drop a magnet into this soil  the magnet picks up nearly ALL the ground.Its just like dropping a magnet into iron filings! I was amazed when BW showed me this.The QED  is able to GB over this soil  as reported by a tester in an earlier post.
IBgold
"I have had it (QED) on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED"
doug ::419::
Edited:Wednesday January 11 2017 11:38:09 AEDT AM


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Wednesday January 11 2017 12:31:29 AEDT PM
  

When you drop a magnet into this soil  the magnet picks up nearly ALL the ground.Its just like dropping a magnet into iron filings! I was amazed when BW showed me this.The QED  is able to GB over this soil  as reported by a tester in an earlier post. IBgold


"I have had it (QED) on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED"


Where I detect if I place and move my magnet on the ground the magnet has a roundish ball of ground stuck to it so has that something to do with the VRM of the ground.

I wonder if the settings IBGold used to GB on that ground were the factory pre-set settings that BW sets in the QED?

Also was he using one of the new Flat wound monos or some other mono coil at the time?

Hopefully IBGold can answer.




Title: Re: QED update: Battery pack question
Post by: Doug on Wednesday January 11 2017 14:01:09 AEDT PM
 Bugs why  have you decided to use a battery pack where the individual cells have to be charged rather than being able to charge the battery pack as a whole unit?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update - Batteries Again
Post by: Huego on Wednesday January 11 2017 14:03:36 AEDT PM
Bugs, below is a question Dustyminer has raised about QED batteries on Finders.
Says ... I should be asking him myself but haven't recovered my password over there yet since I got my new laptop.

Quote


.... I would be using the best available for performance and longevity... that's a given. However the recharging is problematic. Every time you were to withdraw the batteries for recharging is going to induce stress on the wiring regardless of how careful you are and each time you do it you are exposing the internals to possible corruption from dust, etc.

I think my preference would be to either ask Bugs or a competent electronics technician to add a usb port in the casing to recharge the batteries in a bank in situ. We do this with mobile phones so I could not see it being a huge deal and then that also allows to carry a small power bank for charges on the go if required.

Kinda surprised it has not been set up like that already so will be interested in any feedback if anyone is talking to Bugs..
 Dustyminer on Finders

Seems it would cause further delays & complications at this stage of production

(I see Doug has posted the question another way.)

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Wednesday January 11 2017 14:59:35 AEDT PM
It is possible to charge the whole box without removing batteries but it's not recommended to always do this. Each third or fourth change should be a "balanced" charge ie each cell individually. This maximises battery life and gives best performance.
The user would require a car charger with the correct socket for the battery box. Something I will look at soon.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kris on Wednesday January 11 2017 23:19:24 AEDT PM
 Great news Howard congratulations, will have to come up and check it out. ::402::
regards
Chris


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Thursday January 12 2017 13:24:45 AEDT PM
Reg wilsons latest report.QED finds a tiny "nugget".
http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t24672-the-qed-and-me
link-http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t24672-the-qed-and-me
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Thursday January 12 2017 13:56:17 AEDT PM
  
Reg wilsons latest report.QED finds a tiny "nugget".
http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t24672-the-qed-and-me
link-http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t24672-the-qed-and-me
doug


and more on Finders ... extract of key points below

Quote

...I dug a small colour at about three inches that was a very sweet and definite signal. It would be lucky to be .3 of a gram.  I changed coils ... and found it excellent, .....
The next step is to go into deeper ground with a larger coil, as the QED has proved itself on small gold as far as I'm concerned.


Sounds like a tick for small stuff. The search & reporting continues...
Finding gold is always nice but its IS a metal detector, so no surprise.

 ::62::

link:-http://www.finders.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9362&start=420


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: IBGold on Thursday January 12 2017 16:08:54 AEDT PM
  
  

When you drop a magnet into this soil  the magnet picks up nearly ALL the ground.Its just like dropping a magnet into iron filings! I was amazed when BW showed me this.The QED  is able to GB over this soil  as reported by a tester in an earlier post. IBgold


"I have had it (QED) on ground that is around 70% iron content which was near impossible to ground balance with other detectors but was no problem with the QED"



Where I detect if I place and move my magnet on the ground the magnet has a roundish ball of ground stuck to it so has that something to do with the VRM of the ground.

I wonder if the settings IBGold used to GB on that ground were the factory pre-set settings that BW sets in the QED?

Also was he using one of the new Flat wound monos or some other mono coil at the time?

Hopefully IBGold can answer.





To answer your questions  you have to remember that testing session was about three or 4 software versions ago but from my notes the G/B was on 149 and the maximum I have had to use and to this stage all my testing has been with my 3 to 1 mono coils or standard mono's but now I own two EVO coils a 12" and a 14" x 9" I will test with these next time out when it stops raining here and the temperature cools down .

Regards, Ian. ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Thursday January 12 2017 17:26:14 AEDT PM
  
To answer your questions  you have to remember that testing session was about three or 4 software versions ago but from my notes the G/B was on 149 and the maximum I have had to use and to this stage all my testing has been with my 3 to 1 mono coils or standard mono's but now I own two EVO coils a 12" and a 14" x 9" I will test with these next time out when it stops raining here and the temperature cools down .

Regards, Ian. ::62::

Thanks Ian for your reply.

Look forward to how both Evo coils can handle your HOT ground compared to your other coils.

It would be good if all BW has to do to update your QED to the latest version is plug into a port and perform a software update ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Thursday January 12 2017 18:39:04 AEDT PM
  
  
To answer your questions  you have to remember that testing session was about three or 4 software versions ago but from my notes the G/B was on 149 and the maximum I have had to use and to this stage all my testing has been with my 3 to 1 mono coils or standard mono's but now I own two EVO coils a 12" and a 14" x 9" I will test with these next time out when it stops raining here and the temperature cools down .

Regards, Ian. ::62::

Thanks Ian for your reply.

Look forward to how both Evo coils can handle your HOT ground compared to your other coils.

It would be good if all BW has to do to update your QED to the latest version is plug into a port and perform a software update ?

The QED is re-programmable but not by the customer.
An earlier board revision of August 2015 had a socket on the back for reprogramming but the latest board (November 2016) doesn't.
These early boards are with testers located in every state except Tasmania.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Friday January 13 2017 07:58:05 AEDT AM
hi bugs ,
from all reports so far, looking good  ::73:: ::23::
red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Friday January 13 2017 11:00:18 AEDT AM
I reckon it was looking good as soon as the big company men started bagging it! I made my mind up to buy one the 2nd day of the announcement, one of the reasons being the attack from the knockers, personal attack, and the way they tried to tell us all how much of a failure it would be, then they went on the attack about warrenty etc, sounded desperate, like they were threatens by it or something. I will order mine as soon as I've paid some badly timed bills.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Friday January 13 2017 11:29:56 AEDT AM
hi davent
i have noticed some backing off with the boots or even gone silent by some hmmmm,
maybe they have placed an order for  Qed and dont want any of there ml mates to find out ,lol
im just glad we have an oz detector again
small company , listening to what people want
cheers red


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Friday January 13 2017 12:01:02 AEDT PM
  

I reckon it was looking good as soon as the big company men started bagging it! I made my mind up to buy one the 2nd day of the announcement, one of the reasons being the attack from the knockers, personal attack, and the way they tried to tell us all how much of a failure it would be, then they went on the attack about warrenty etc, sounded desperate, like they were threatens by it or something. I will order mine as soon as I've paid some badly timed bills.


Yes Dave, for many years the QEDs existence was denied then disparaged, (as have its developer Bugs & its supporters), even accused of being a copy etc etc. A sure sign they were worried what was being said about it here was right on the money. Unconscionable delaying methods were even applied to Bugs. A saying goes “it requires a common enemy to unite (polarise) us” . How true that has been!

Test reports will be coming in from a number of quarters from most states it seems over the next few months. Then prospective buyers & skeptics can make up their own mind, accept it or not, buy one or not, find gold with one or not.

But I was wrong about Reg having "a production model". He was SOLD, so he didnt have to a wait, a pre-production prototype (with a port for software modification, if required). But as Inhere says, thats not unusual. Reg & designers would also know that from the past. If its functionaly is the same as a production model it will make no difference to what Reg finds about its performance. A production model would have reduced the suspicions some have, but delayed his assessment.

You can see the defenders of the status quo on 4-umer already calling Reg a "joker with an agenda", and putting pressure on him for “proof”. For me his word as an experienced apostle is enough, others want more visual proof. Others want him to make a comparison with ML top performers ASAP, as if their life or future savings depended on buying or not buying it.

This stormy weather here will test its resistance to lighting-induced interference.

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Huego on Friday January 13 2017 12:03:24 AEDT PM
  

im just glad we have an oz detector again
small company , listening to what people want
cheers red



Red, this is likely the hush (or rush) before the storm …. The QED will speak for itself through testers and conciencious users, not through its knockers.

Yes, great to have an Aussie designed and built PI detector available, one that’s easy to handle and affordable (without the Gold Tax). I hope Bugs can keep up with orders.

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Davent on Friday January 13 2017 13:43:11 AEDT PM
I hope he can keep up as well, I'm doing a trip to WA in August/sept and want to get some time with one here in the NT before I go. Still about a month before I can order one, and I reckon the order list will be pretty long in a months time!
Hope Dean has a good supply of 12$ evo,s!


Title: Re: QED update: clarification on firmware updates
Post by: Doug on Friday January 13 2017 22:14:04 AEDT PM
 On the  production model of the QED the only person that can update the firmware is BW. The firmware is also  very securely  "locked up" and can only be accessed by BW. The firmware in Regs detector is the same as the production QED.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update: clarification on firmware updates
Post by: Doug on Friday January 13 2017 22:26:22 AEDT PM
  
On the  production model of the QED the only person that can update the firmware is BW. The firmware is also  very securely  "locked up" and can only be accessed by BW. The firmware in Regs detector is the same as the production QED.
doug ::419::

BW has not only designed  the circuit and its layout for the QED but also written the S code(firmware) for the QED which is not a trivial task!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Friday January 13 2017 22:42:58 AEDT PM
Cant imagine how many pages of code there is for the QED ..and how many pain staking hours at the keyboard Bugs had put into it... My hat goes off to him.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday January 15 2017 18:03:13 AEDT PM
  
Cant imagine how many pages of code there is for the QED ..and how many pain staking hours at the keyboard Bugs had put into it... My hat goes off to him.

The QED sourcecode is around 1300 lines which equates to around 1300 instructions/data. This efficiency is achieved by writing in Assembly Language. It produces the fastest and most compact programs.

The Mode function (menu item #5) in the QED is a very important innovation, it allows the detector to be adjusted to suit the coil.
While it is generally accepted that a PI needs to sample as early as possible to detect very small/short TC targets sometimes things aren't what they seem.
A test with two 8" MONO coils on a 0.04g "nugget" (~ 1mm spherical) resulted in the following.

Coil #1 could be run in mode #1 and detect the target at a bit over 1.5".
Coil #2 needed to be in mode #3 and picked up the nugget at an additional 0.5 - 0.75 inches.

Mode #3 samples 0.8 uS later than Mode #1 yet the same sized coil gave a better result.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Sunday January 15 2017 18:10:36 AEDT PM
What was the difference between Coil #1 and Coil #2, that made it necessary to use different modes for each one ?


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Sunday January 15 2017 18:28:12 AEDT PM
  
What was the difference between Coil #1 and Coil #2, that made it necessary to use different modes for each one ?

Parasitic capacitance either from the coax or shielding.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Sunday January 15 2017 20:59:42 AEDT PM
Yes many paramaters of a coil to consider ... coax cable type and capacitance, coil to shield capacitance , coil inductance and impedance, coil wire type used , so one would think the manufactures would replicate the parent coil .. maybe they dont or should I say not exact.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Monday January 16 2017 09:35:49 AEDT AM
Re  Reg Wilson.
A few things need clarification with regard to  Reg wilson.
Firstly Reg is not a member of this forum and I have had no personal contact with him at all .Nor have I ever met him except perhaps in the past at PMAV general meetings. As far as BW  goes I believe that its only very recently that  Reg made contact with him and asked could he test a QED after seeing it work in BW backyard. Reg has had no input into the design and has no pecuniary or other vested interest in the QED other than it may be useful addition to his prospecting armory due to the QED's ability to scan the ground at high sweep speeds without losing any signal  resolution or  apparently  any sensitivity/depth although more testing on deeper targets needs to be done.
The QED's very light weight and ease of use and good GB  and easy pinpointing would further enhance the ability of the QED to  very quickly cover a lot of ground when hunting for new patches which is what Reg is all about. Reg has no QED agenda other than it may be another useful tool for his prospecting endeavors.
doug ::419::
Edited:Monday January 16 2017 09:40:38 AEDT AM


Title: Re: QED update : another users report
Post by: Doug on Monday January 16 2017 23:05:02 AEDT PM
 See the latest QED post on finders by  "Yellowfin."
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: greylourie on Tuesday January 17 2017 07:54:36 AEDT AM
I find the two coils example fascinating. Its like Coil #2 had more "gain", enough to offer better depth than Coil #1 even though it was receiving the sample later (Mode #3).


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: redcaveman on Tuesday January 17 2017 08:49:31 AEDT AM
 ::27:: ::05::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Tuesday January 17 2017 09:03:47 AEDT AM
  
I find the two coils example fascinating. Its like Coil #2 had more "gain", enough to offer better depth than Coil #1 even though it was receiving the sample later (Mode #3).

The signal from the coil is amplified by the PREAMP and then processed by the the Integrator that is used as a null summation/averaging means as published by Eric Foster in 1968. An integrator works on amplitude and time. Perhaps the slower coils parasitic capacitance extends the time and faster coils provide greater amplitude.


Title: Re: QED update : another users report
Post by: mylab on Tuesday January 17 2017 11:17:32 AEDT AM
  

See the latest QED post on finders by  "Yellowfin."
doug


Yellowfin's reports on Page 32 are excellent examples of the QED's Mode functionality.  

Also the settings he posted for the 11" coil shows the QED does not need or require the amount / array of settings that the GPX or GPZ has on offer which could confuse the operator to use for best results.

Sometimes less is better and it appears this may be the case with the QED as more results filter in from the goldfield.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: gef12 on Tuesday January 17 2017 12:43:19 AEDT PM
Ye Bugs has kept it simple using the KIS strategy "Keep It Simple"
no frustrating menus to navigate thru ..less the better so you can get on with your prospecting ..thumbs up  ::73:: ::73::


Title: Re: QED update- a GB Triumph
Post by: Huego on Wednesday January 18 2017 12:00:47 AEDT PM
QED - GB a Triumph on hot ground

For those who missed it....

Quote

I've not been able to GB a Mono on this site regardless of the timings used on the 5000, ….  the depth sacrifice makes it a complete waste of time. .... Now the QED balances a Mono here without an issue, ...and it appears to detect target’s at a depth that we’ve missed ..   (YF, Finders QED p 34)

Some hot ground caused "a GPX to complain a bit, but the QED handled it easily. (Reg, Finders,)


Now I would call that a TRIUMPH for the QED over the 5000 (& models preceeding it) on GB on hot ground, wouldn't you?

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update - Musings?
Post by: Huego on Wednesday January 18 2017 12:31:26 AEDT PM
..... common enemies make enemies become friends!...
we shouldn't have been forced to take up arms with words - we were compelled to defend ourselves make a stand here for what the QED symbolises*  (in tribute to PL, post Eureka).

Below shows a poor attempt at humour / distraction elsewhere from the QED facts

Musings (below) by a Finders fool, while sitting on an outdoor dunnie in the heat, is neither close to any truth nor helpfiul to prospectors. Readers & testers are onto the attributes of the QED already, no publicity required, just facts from tests without musings! Talk about a crumpet basher!

1. What if after Reg’s tests the QED turns out to be "nothing more than a useful beeper aimed at the budget/entry level (newbie prospector, who have) got all the time in the world (for a ) manual GB newbie. ….. "

Duhhh.... Smart prospectors & newbies learn from the GB info the QED gives with manual GB. Further, it balances where a 5000 won’t!  (Refer to what YF has found above.)

2. Bugs …. "needs someone to buy him out."

“Someone" may well buy him out, or “someone" may manufacture &/or sell the QED under licence, or licence to use his IP or … or … the possibilities are endless!  (I was told by Bugs that the QED DOES contain patented & licensed IP.)

But don’t worry, it works easily for the old & new prospector alike, without a Gold Tax.

3. "No doubt the first thing to be addressed will be the archaic manual ground balance and add some professional marketing…. exclusive of agenda driven supporters of the last ten years."

Hmmmmm "archaic GB" eh? ….. so funny when the old timers & sensible prospectors can use it when a 5000 won't GB on such hot ground! Combined with rugged electronics at affordable prices they now know better.  

Expensive professional BS (called marketing) is not required to add to costs when word-of-mouth & reports do the job. No sharelholders to please, just prospectors.

* This forum’s primary "agenda" was always to support & defend new & affordable MDs like the QED

 ::62::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: kazza on Friday January 20 2017 09:09:49 AEDT AM
BugWiskers,

Looks like your brainchild is a great success! Congrats!

May I ask a technical question please, for which it goes without saying, that NO answer is expect answer if it gives away any of your IP?

As you know, I think I understand the ML Smooth patent (and of course, take it for granted you are not infringing it). But wow, the QED is reported to have even lower ground noise than Smooth AND excellent depth! Finding gold deeper than extant detectors in well-worked areas is all about target signal to ground noise ratio, something which you have clearly cracked. (Obviously this is not the case in bulldozed ground, nor areas that have had none or few detectors pass over it.) Even more amazing, the QED produces low ground noise where other detectors produce impractically severe ground signals. How the heck have you achieved this truly landmark breakthrough, especially given that other BIG $ companies are battling to do the same? Seriously awesome! I am amazed others have not noted the immense significance of this!

Thanks.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 10:37:33 AEDT AM
  

As you know, I think I understand the ML Smooth patent

What is the ML smooth patent number?
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday January 20 2017 12:24:22 AEDT PM
  
BugWiskers,

Looks like your brainchild is a great success! Congrats!

May I ask a technical question please, for which it goes without saying, that NO answer is expect answer if it gives away any of your IP?

As you know, I think I understand the ML Smooth patent (and of course, take it for granted you are not infringing it). But wow, the QED is reported to have even lower ground noise than Smooth AND excellent depth! Finding gold deeper than extant detectors in well-worked areas is all about target signal to ground noise ratio, something which you have clearly cracked. (Obviously this is not the case in bulldozed ground, nor areas that have had none or few detectors pass over it.) Even more amazing, the QED produces low ground noise where other detectors produce impractically severe ground signals. How the heck have you achieved this truly landmark breakthrough, especially given that other BIG $ companies are battling to do the same? Seriously awesome! I am amazed others have not noted the immense significance of this!

Thanks.


The QED GB method was posted in this forum back in April 2016. It uses a combination of the work/lapsed patents of Eric Foster, Chapman & Howells, and Dr George Paltoglou.

I believe the improvement over prior art is due to the Bipolar Integrating ADC and the use of 4 extra stages of LPF using class D techniques that don't suffer phase lag to drive both VCA and VCO. This disclosure creates my copyright.


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 12:35:38 AEDT PM
  
  
BugWiskers,

Looks like your brainchild is a great success! Congrats!

May I ask a technical question please, for which it goes without saying, that NO answer is expect answer if it gives away any of your IP?

As you know, I think I understand the ML Smooth patent (and of course, take it for granted you are not infringing it). But wow, the QED is reported to have even lower ground noise than Smooth AND excellent depth! Finding gold deeper than extant detectors in well-worked areas is all about target signal to ground noise ratio, something which you have clearly cracked. (Obviously this is not the case in bulldozed ground, nor areas that have had none or few detectors pass over it.) Even more amazing, the QED produces low ground noise where other detectors produce impractically severe ground signals. How the heck have you achieved this truly landmark breakthrough, especially given that other BIG $ companies are battling to do the same? Seriously awesome! I am amazed others have not noted the immense significance of this!

Thanks.


The QED GB method was posted in this forum back in April 2016. It uses a combination of the work/lapsed patents of Eric Foster, Chapman & Howells, and Dr George Paltoglou.

I believe the improvement over prior art is due to the Bipolar Integrating ADC and the use of 4 extra stages of LPF using class D techniques that don't suffer phase lag to drive both VCA and VCO. This disclosure creates my copyright.

The QED circuit being much simpler(relatively few components) also likely contributes to a  lower noise  ie better S/N than other comparable detectors. The patent applied for front end  may also play a part.
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 12:55:39 AEDT PM
Why would anyone now want to buy an sdc2300 when they can have a QED at about 1/2 the price and use a range of mono coils from say 8"-24" rather than being stuck with an 8" tiddler coil on the SDC?
just my thoughts,
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 13:21:18 AEDT PM
Some forums appear to live in their own little world. Their is nothing about the QED on prospectingaustralia.com even on the  board discussing other detector brands!
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=38
link-https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=38
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 13:29:02 AEDT PM
  
  
BugWiskers,

Looks like your brainchild is a great success! Congrats!

May I ask a technical question please, for which it goes without saying, that NO answer is expect answer if it gives away any of your IP?

As you know, I think I understand the ML Smooth patent (and of course, take it for granted you are not infringing it). But wow, the QED is reported to have even lower ground noise than Smooth AND excellent depth! Finding gold deeper than extant detectors in well-worked areas is all about target signal to ground noise ratio, something which you have clearly cracked. (Obviously this is not the case in bulldozed ground, nor areas that have had none or few detectors pass over it.) Even more amazing, the QED produces low ground noise where other detectors produce impractically severe ground signals. How the heck have you achieved this truly landmark breakthrough, especially given that other BIG $ companies are battling to do the same? Seriously awesome! I am amazed others have not noted the immense significance of this!

Thanks.


The QED GB method was posted in this forum back in April 2016. It uses a combination of the work/lapsed patents of Eric Foster, Chapman & Howells, and Dr George Paltoglou.

I believe the improvement over prior art is due to the Bipolar Integrating ADC and the use of 4 extra stages of LPF using class D techniques that don't suffer phase lag to drive both VCA and VCO. This disclosure creates my copyright.

Application Note AN-1071
Class D Audio Amplifier Basics

By Jun Honda & Jonathan Adams
Table of Contents
Page
What is a Class D Audio Amplifier? – Theory of Operation ..................2
Topology Comparison – Linear vs. Class D .........................................4
Analogy to a Synchronous Buck Converter..........................................5
Power Losses in the MOSFETs ...........................................................6
Half Bridge vs. Full Bridge....................................................................7
Major Cause of Imperfection ................................................................8
THD and Dead Time ............................................................................9
Audio Performance Measurement........................................................10
Shoot Through and Dead Time............................................................11
Power Supply Pumping........................................................................12
EMI Consideration: Qrr in Body Diode .................................................13
Conclusion ...........................................................................................14
A Class D audio amplifier is basically a switching amplifier or PWM amplifier. There are a number
of different classes of amplifiers. This application note takes a look at the definitions for the main
classifications.
http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/an-1071.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a40153559538eb0ff1
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: mylab on Friday January 20 2017 13:38:52 AEDT PM
  
Some forums appear to live in their own little world. Their is nothing about the QED on prospectingaustralia.com even on the  board discussing other detector brands!
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=38
link-https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=38
doug ::419::

Have a look here : https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=26
It is under the heading Metal Detectors


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 13:45:36 AEDT PM
  
  
Some forums appear to live in their own little world. Their is nothing about the QED on prospectingaustralia.com even on the  board discussing other detector brands!
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=38
link-https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=38
doug ::419::

Have a look here: https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewforum.php?id=26

Thanks! Perhaps i am the one living in a forum bubble!  ::75::  ::620::
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: Doug on Friday January 20 2017 17:09:43 AEDT PM
  
Why would anyone now want to buy an sdc2300 when they can have a QED at about 1/2 the price and use a range of mono coils from say 8"-24" rather than being stuck with an 8" tiddler coil on the SDC?
just my thoughts,
doug ::419::

Based on some recent testing the QED can also detect some  tiny specimen gold (and some very minute bits) that the SDC 2300 can't!
doug ::419::


Title: Re: QED update
Post by: bugwhiskers on Friday January 20 2017 17:19:03 AEDT PM
All PI detectors that use an integrator as a null summation/averaging means as published by Eric Foster in 1968 will have a detection "hole" for any target that has the same decay characteristics as the ground. In the QED in MODE 1  a 70 * 70mm single sided copper PCB falls into that hole. There are other factors that come into play ie conductivity, profile area, thickness, orientation etc. I know someone who has a 2g Nugget that is just detectable at 2" with a well known brand.I haven't found a nugget yet that falls into the QED "hole" but I may have swung the coil over it over it !