northwest QED User Experience\Review
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Interfacion Pty Ltd is pleased to announce that the QED PI Detector has been modified to allow the use of DD (double D) coils. This change involves a simple change to the electronics within the control box.
The firmware has also been upgraded to include a further improved Ground Balance.
All detectors being delivered to new customers from Monday 5th August 2019 will already have the above upgrades included.
As a show of commitment to all QED owners, the hardware modification to allow use of the DD and CC coils will be provided at no cost.
Of course and as per the QED warranty, the firmware update is provided free of charge, except for P&H.
Any QED owner who plans to attend the Laanecoorie Bash is encouraged to bring their detector along and have it upgraded at no cost.
Standard postage and handling arrangements apply to other owners. Send via Australia Post the box (minus batteries) along with a pre-paid, pre-addressed bag/box to:
Interfacion Pty Ltd
PO Box 106R
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australian electronic gold prospecting forum.com  |  QED users  |  QED users (Moderator: bugwhiskers)  |  Topic: QED User Experience\Review 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Dave63
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« on: Friday November 15 2019 16:26:30 AEDT PM »

Hello All

My First major outing with the QED. I intend to write a review here after ever major outing with the QED, until I understand the detector. This also posted in AEGPF
This is my first PI detector. Price, Capabilities and Aussie made were the driving factors to buying this machine.

I went to Warwick GPA for two days. Two purposes for the trip one to recon as much of the all GPAs as possible and two to test my new QED.
Recon was to look for potential Dry wash locations. That a different story
I found all the trash left in the GPA. Bullets, horse shoes, rusting tin, slug gun pellets. Nothing very deep though, all at only a few centimeters. This concerned me so I buried a five cent piece at 20cm on its edge to make it as small a target as possible. Picked this up no problems at all. Full repeatable target. So I am hoping I just didnt walk over any deep targets

I took an XP ORX and my QED

QED got a good 18hrs of use over the two days and used my ORX on some of the same ground: I found it interesting on how the VLF reacted compared to the QED. ( Not Direct comparison test)

My QED setup is as follows:
QED PLII with Detech Shaft
11" Detech Ultra sensing
Quest WIFI to a set of (Apple ipod earplugs ) I am going to buy a good set
Warwick I found has a great difference in minerals across the area. So I had to make sure I basically reset the QED every time I changed location

Quest WIFI - Worked very well. Battery lasts for 24hrs, just as well as I forgot to turn it off most of the time. Had receiver in my top pocket so my earplugs never got in my way. Forgot I still had them in a couple of times Overall very happy with this audio setup

Detech shaft - Excellent

11" Detech Ultra sensing coil - Being my first coil other than HF on ORX - I a had to get use to it sounding hollow while passing it over the ground. Being hollow cuts down on weight I suppose which is good.

I had to Factory Reset at every new spot I detected, as trying to adjust from the previous location was to hard. So in the end I just factory reset when I turned in on at a new location and went through the setup process. Working through the settings starting at 2, then 1,3,4,5

I talk about each setting in the order I used in my setup process

THS-B - Setup range was 49 to 59 so around 54 was mid point. I used it at mid the entire time so I would received an even tone for Small and Large targets

MGB - Setting ranged from 170 to 210. I very quickly got use to checking MGB on the Fly. I did find myself trying to balance in the wrong direction quite a a lot, this just meant spending time cycling back the other way to get correct MGB ( Silence in the Ear Plugs). MGB is achieved on the down motion of the coil, but I was receiving a tone on the up motion as well. Once I got use to this I adjusted the MGB until neither tone could be heard. Once MGB was achieved the detector was silent.

THS-A - This setting initially confused me a bit, as to me it I felt it wasn't really doing anything, after watch the training video over and over and reading some more I understood its relationship to THS-B. This how I used it - (This may be totally wrong so I will need some feedback here). Once I achieved ground balance I would adjust THS-A up until I could just here a tone being produced I would then turn it down until the tone was only just audible. I took this as being the sweet spot for THS-A. Around 50 all over the GPA

Gain - Adjusting Gain up above 2 produced an unstable response from the QED so 2 was the max setting for most of the trip. Adjusting Gain up also effected the tone produced by THS-A. I put the Gain up and went back to THS-A to try and adjust the tone out. This had no effect. So reset THS-A and lowered Gain to make detector stable

Mode - This setting is coil and ground specific to achieve a balance. I found that 3-4 was good for all areas I detected. Anything higher or lower made the detector unstable

After going through this setup( Only took a minute or two). QED was basically silent except for the very low tone that I could only just here from THS-A. While swinging I kept the coil in contact with the ground.
I did not receive any coil to ground contact noise
At times I had to check that the detector was still on by passing it near my boot to get a target response ( steel in boots) The silence surprised me, but was excellent as I didn't have to have continual noise in my ears detecting

In patches this happened. I would get single tones from the detector both high or low, swing back past the spot of the tone, nothing
If I started to get these tones, I sometimes stopped moving the detector and listen, random tones still produced (EMI ground mineral) ? I also came across patches that produced multiple random tones. For example a patch 1m square where the detector was silent all around it, but just produced random tones all over the 1m Square. Nothing repeatable in one spot. I dug this out of curiosity, after removing a couple of cm all tone was gone and no target could be found or single disappeared. So eventually I just ignored this type of signal response putting it down to soil type\minerals. I also had tones that produced like a wobbly type noise that was over one spot that sometimes came and went. When dug target disappeared or I found I just spread the target noise over a wider area.

When target was found the tone was easy to recognize and repeatable over the one spot

Please feel free to give me feedback on my setup. I dont know if I am reducing the small target detection or loosing depth

This was my first experience with the QED. Overall I am very happy and excited with my purchase. All I need to do is walk over some yellow and find it.
I think my next move is to setup a test patch somewhere. Lead sinkers from sub gram and up
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russ55
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« Reply #1 on: Friday November 15 2019 16:54:33 AEDT PM »

Thanks Dave- good report. I’m also a newby with the QED and I think my problems are thinking it through TOO much. Castlemaine tomorrow. Got to dumb myself down further!
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Dave63
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« Reply #2 on: Friday November 15 2019 17:23:06 AEDT PM »

Just read the manual again taking into consideration what I just wrote. (Amazing how much clearer you thoughts are after you put them on paper\Interweb)
If I was advising myself I would say

With my setup process After setting THS-A I should have recheck THS-B. Leaving it at NULL produced even small and large target response, but Warwick is mainly small targets so, THS-B should have been set below NULL to enhance them. This would then change the tone given by THS-A, so I would now go back to THS-A and fine tune it to a comfortable level. Which also removes instability of response rolleye 1

Am I correct

MGB, Gain and Mode are easy to understand. The secret to the QED is understanding the relationship between THS-B, THS-A and coil size.  AhHa moment just had Toilet reading
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Goldman
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« Reply #3 on: Friday November 15 2019 17:52:46 AEDT PM »

Hi Dave63,

First thing to do is to absolutely know what your THS-B NULL is. 54 is a little high from my experience, however as each machine is slightly different and depending on prevailing conditions at the ‘factory’ during final post production setup, a NULL of 54 is possible.

Another way to check your NULL is to crank THS-A right up (80-90), adjust THS-B to 40. Slowly adjust THS-B from 40 up (and in your case) through 54 to say 60. What will happen is as you increase the number from 40, the noise will start out very loud then decrease as you get closer to NULL and will be at its quietest at NULL. Then as you pass through NULL the noise level will start to increase again. Take note of the quietest number, it won’t be absolutely quiet but will be the quietest number. Please let me know how you go with this process.

Your mode selection is correct for that coil.

The process I use is as follows:
***Factory reset
1) Set mode
2) Set THS-B to NULL
3) set gain to 6
4) MGB
5) set THS-A up to say 65-75 or until noise level is reached then back off a few until quiet. If you get down to 40-50, drop gain and push THS -A up again.
6) try not to decrease gain lower than 4, but if you have to, then do it, but in this case, I would start again with a higher MODE.
7) once quiet, decrease THS-B below null until noise starts, then up 1-2 clicks until quiet.

Please let me know how you go with this process as this works even in the worst ground.

Ground noise
To determine whether the target signal is a ground noise, determine if your getting a low - high or a high-low target response.
* If low-high, then INCREASE your ground balance by 20 and swing over the target again.
* If it’s a high-low, DECREASE your ground balance and swing over the target again.

If your target response decreases, or moves, or disappears altogether, then it’s a ground noise. Don’t forget to reset MGB back to its MGB number.



Cheers Goldman



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Dave63
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« Reply #4 on: Friday November 15 2019 18:59:56 AEDT PM »

Thanks Goldman

This is exactly the feedback I was hoping for. Best explanation of Starting Setup so far on Forum

Can this setup take into account whether you are hunting small or large target.

Or is this the best all round setup

Cheers

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Goldman
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« Reply #5 on: Friday November 15 2019 20:00:33 AEDT PM »

  
Thanks Goldman

This is exactly the feedback I was hoping for. Best explanation of Starting Setup so far on Forum

Can this setup take into account whether you are hunting small or large target.

Or is this the best all round setup

Cheers



Hi Dave63,

Essentially this a setup for general detecting, including small targets. Going under NULL (even by one) will give you more sensitivity and depth than at NULL.

If you have a big coil (18”+), go above NULL by one or two or as much as you can, with a high to very high THS-A.

Once you have ‘set up’, always check to see if you can increase gain without introducing (too much) noise.



Cheers
Goldman

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phrunt
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« Reply #6 on: Saturday November 16 2019 06:32:22 AEDT AM »

That's a good first report Dave, I noticed you signed up on DP forum too, they'd probably appreciate your first experience with it over there as well.  It's good to let people know how you find using it, a lot of people are interested at the moment in the QED.

It sounds like you're going to take to detecting like a duck to water, you're picking it up very quickly.

Goldman's given great advice in his posts, that should virtually be the Quick-Start Guide to the QED :)  He has an entire thread of QED tips, worth reading/copying to a document the whole thing, it's great.
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GARY
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« Reply #7 on: Sunday November 17 2019 08:59:18 AEDT AM »

  

Gain - Adjusting Gain up above 2 produced an unstable response from the QED so 2 was the max setting for most of the trip. Adjusting Gain up also effected the tone produced by THS-A. I put the Gain up and went back to THS-A to try and adjust the tone out. This had no effect. So reset THS-A and lowered Gain to make detector stable


Thanks for your first review of your QED out on your goldfield and look forward to more.

I have experienced the same when raising the GAIN.

Gary.   
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dasenator777
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« Reply #8 on: Sunday November 17 2019 22:22:32 AEDT PM »

if you up the mode a bit you can crank gain more ive found
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phrunt
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« Reply #9 on: Monday November 18 2019 05:12:08 AEDT AM »

yes, that's correct, the higher the mode the higher you can get your gain in tough soils, It would be interesting to know which people should pursue... which would end up to best for sensitivity to small nuggets, a lower mode with lower gain or a higher mode with higher gain?
 
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dasenator777
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« Reply #10 on: Monday November 18 2019 08:50:17 AEDT AM »

  
yes, that's correct, the higher the mode the higher you can get your gain in tough soils, It would be interesting to know which people should pursue... which would end up to best for sensitivity to small nuggets, a lower mode with lower gain or a higher mode with higher gain?
 
il let yas know sometime this week im interested too
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Goldman
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« Reply #11 on: Monday November 18 2019 09:53:19 AEDT AM »

  
yes, that's correct, the higher the mode the higher you can get your gain in tough soils, It would be interesting to know which people should pursue... which would end up to best for sensitivity to small nuggets, a lower mode with lower gain or a higher mode with higher gain?
 

This intrigued me as well so this morning I set up my test bench outside and the preliminary tests show that a low mode (ie. 1) was getting good sensitivity at low gain 1, through to 8, which was as high as I could go this morning in suburbia.
Settings mode to 5, with gain at 8 matched M1;G4. with gain at 10 it was still behind M1;G8.
With M10, G7 matched M1;G1.

I’m going to try again on a day with less EMI as was a EMI day today, light aircraft, washing machine going, etc but these prelim tests showed that you do get better results with a low mode on small gold - all tests above using a .08g gold nugget.

All tests today were air tests.

Will be very interested in others testing this out and their results

BTW, there is no doubt that you lose some depth as you increase mode.

Cheers Goldman
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phrunt
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« Reply #12 on: Monday November 18 2019 14:16:35 AEDT PM »

Thanks for doing that Goldman, as my soil is relatively benign I will get around to testing some in ground targets to see what happens.  Your air test results are what I was expecting.
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Dave63
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« Reply #13 on: Tuesday November 19 2019 16:18:51 AEDT PM »

G'All

Had a chance today to test the setup given to me by Goldman. Went to a local creek known for its old mines for a swing. Car parts old very rusty tools. Panned a couple bits of yellow I could just see.

QED Setup - I followed the setup suggested by Goldman
Factory Reset
Set mode to 4
Set THS- B to NULL - I could not get anything Lower than 50 for NULL

Setting Gain to 6 - This setting just made the the Detector make continual noise - No matter what I did to other settings the noise remained - Again Gain at 2 for a stable machine, Could not get Gain to be stable at 4 as suggested as minimum level.

MGB was very difficult. The Default of 150 was quiet and stable. I just turned to MGB up to 200 and was still stable. Turned it down to 100 and still stable and Quiet. SO I left it at default. - I don't know the effect of to high or low of MGB

THS-A I turned it up to 65/70 detector was screaming so turned it down Hit 40 so started whole process again on a higher MODE. Setting a higher MODE just made the Detector unstable so turned it down to 3 and THS-A was raised to 60 and reduced to 58 to which was to point of a just audible tone

Tried suggested setup multiple times. Ended up back at my original Setup sequence to achieve a quiet stable machine.. Still had the issue of random detector noise High and low tones. None repeatable. Deepest target today was 100mm rusty metal piece.

I cannot do any testing at my home just to much EMI. I have made some test targets .2g, .4g, 1g and 2g. I will have to go somewhere and run some tests. I will try to Video my setup with the external speaker.

I am not keen on putting it on YouTube is there another way a video can be viewed for review and feedback via the forum


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Dave63
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« Reply #14 on: Tuesday November 19 2019 18:49:14 AEDT PM »

Phrunt created a video on his setup. I will test this tomorrow
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phrunt
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« Reply #15 on: Tuesday November 19 2019 19:35:28 AEDT PM »

Here is the video showing how I set mine up

  

This was a completely unprepared unscripted video, I just threw 3 nuggets down on the ground and off I went filming it, I hadn't even turned on my QED prior to turning on my camera,  I noticed in the video because I was showing how deep it can go a majority of the time I kept my coil high up off the ground, only a few times I got it down close to the gold, you'll hear when I do as it roars.  Those perceptive enough will be able to use the shadows to see that.

In Mode 11 ( no ground balance ) I can't rapidly pump the coil in this location on the soil as it will sound off, if I lower it and raise it slower it won't, normal everyday detecting I don't rapidly pump my coil while walking along detecting so that's a small price to pay for the massive sensitivity boost of Mode 11.

This was the weight of the littlest nugget in the video with the big one being 1 gram and the other one in the middle somewhere, I didn't weigh it.

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« Reply #16 on: Tuesday November 19 2019 21:48:54 AEDT PM »

  
G'All

Had a chance today to test the setup given to me by Goldman. Went to a local creek known for its old mines for a swing. Car parts old very rusty tools. Panned a couple bits of yellow I could just see.

QED Setup - I followed the setup suggested by Goldman
Factory Reset
Set mode to 4
Set THS- B to NULL - I could not get anything Lower than 50 for NULL

Setting Gain to 6 - This setting just made the the Detector make continual noise - No matter what I did to other settings the noise remained - Again Gain at 2 for a stable machine, Could not get Gain to be stable at 4 as suggested as minimum level.

MGB was very difficult. The Default of 150 was quiet and stable. I just turned to MGB up to 200 and was still stable. Turned it down to 100 and still stable and Quiet. SO I left it at default. - I don't know the effect of to high or low of MGB

THS-A I turned it up to 65/70 detector was screaming so turned it down Hit 40 so started whole process again on a higher MODE. Setting a higher MODE just made the Detector unstable so turned it down to 3 and THS-A was raised to 60 and reduced to 58 to which was to point of a just audible tone

Tried suggested setup multiple times. Ended up back at my original Setup sequence to achieve a quiet stable machine.. Still had the issue of random detector noise High and low tones. None repeatable. Deepest target today was 100mm rusty metal piece.

I cannot do any testing at my home just to much EMI. I have made some test targets .2g, .4g, 1g and 2g. I will have to go somewhere and run some tests. I will try to Video my setup with the external speaker.

I am not keen on putting it on YouTube is there another way a video can be viewed for review and feedback via the forum




Do these random high and low tones occur when the coil is not moving and well above the ground?
doug smile
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« Reply #17 on: Tuesday November 19 2019 22:03:05 AEDT PM »

  
G'All

Had a chance today to test the setup given to me by Goldman. Went to a local creek known for its old mines for a swing. Car parts old very rusty tools. Panned a couple bits of yellow I could just see.

QED Setup - I followed the setup suggested by Goldman
Factory Reset
Set mode to 4
Set THS- B to NULL - I could not get anything Lower than 50 for NULL

Setting Gain to 6 - This setting just made the the Detector make continual noise - No matter what I did to other settings the noise remained - Again Gain at 2 for a stable machine, Could not get Gain to be stable at 4 as suggested as minimum level.

MGB was very difficult. The Default of 150 was quiet and stable. I just turned to MGB up to 200 and was still stable. Turned it down to 100 and still stable and Quiet. SO I left it at default. - I don't know the effect of to high or low of MGB

THS-A I turned it up to 65/70 detector was screaming so turned it down Hit 40 so started whole process again on a higher MODE. Setting a higher MODE just made the Detector unstable so turned it down to 3 and THS-A was raised to 60 and reduced to 58 to which was to point of a just audible tone

Tried suggested setup multiple times. Ended up back at my original Setup sequence to achieve a quiet stable machine.. Still had the issue of random detector noise High and low tones. None repeatable. Deepest target today was 100mm rusty metal piece.

I cannot do any testing at my home just to much EMI. I have made some test targets .2g, .4g, 1g and 2g. I will have to go somewhere and run some tests. I will try to Video my setup with the external speaker.

I am not keen on putting it on YouTube is there another way a video can be viewed for review and feedback via the forum




Dave are their any 3 phase power lines near where you are testing? The reason i ask this is because the SMR in the QED will not cancel out the  resulting "EMI" from 3 phase power lines.
doug smile
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« Reply #18 on: Tuesday November 19 2019 22:09:33 AEDT PM »

  
G'All
I am not keen on putting it on YouTube is there another way a video can be viewed for review and feedback via the forum
You can try uploading a video file as an attachment and  we can see what happens. I can't recall whether this has been done before.
doug smile
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bugwhiskers
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« Reply #19 on: Wednesday November 20 2019 13:42:09 AEDT PM »

The SMR (Synchronous Mains Rejection) in the QED firmware only works for single phase mains.
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